Late night feelings

[NateDog]

Ever end up sitting up late finding it difficult to drift off, or wake up in the middle of the night unable to easily get back to sleep with something occupying your mind that'll probably end unimportant to you when you wake in the morning, but is keeping you up now? You don't necessarily need to be actively looking for answers from others, maybe you just want to get some thoughts written down somewhere. This thread's for you.

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I watched When Harry Met Sally last yesterday for the first time, and one of the things that (for some reason) stood out to me was these close friends that each of the main characters had outside of work at the various stages in their lives despite the many time jumps in the movie. I feel like that's something I've struggled with over the years a lot. Maybe it's just me and my own personality and inability to retain friendships. I can be very closed off and don't exactly make it easy for people, heck a coworker just the other night was asking me how long we had been working on the same team (we're split up into 4 groups that all normally only interact with each other in passing unless people are working overtime or end up covering gaps in other teams) and I laughed that she's remarked many times that I used to be such a rude bastard and it took years to break me out of my shell with her once she ended up on mine. 

But I have had people that I've spent time with outside of work that I get along with well and it generally ends up the same way. You leave jobs and it just becomes harder to see each other, you try and the other person doesn't so you stop trying (that's how I ended up years without any friends having cut off everyone from my school years a long while back), they move away, etc. I guess I always wonder when I see people that not only maintain these relationships but also continue to forge new ones how they manage to do it. I find it hard to get time for myself to breathe most weeks. Maybe I just encourage it. I go to the cinema alone, I game mostly by myself (apart from the odd occasion with my brother-in-law), I don't drink alcohol so I avoid work nights out most times they happen. I often see people lamenting the challenge of making friends as you get older and away from the years of school, college and that point in life where you're bouncing from job to job and regularly meeting new people your age. 

Is it just the modern age, or has it always been this way for everyone? Do it early or face getting left behind? Maybe I shouldn't miss it. I'm a loner at heart and have been for a long time, something I remind Leelee often when she sees me in those moments where I just want peace and little more for a while. So maybe I've actively asking for it. But every now and again I find myself craving more, different connections with other human beings.

[Jassassino]

Lol I did see you online last night at like 4am UK time. I just thought you had a very early start for some reason or another. Weirdly also coincided with a night where I struggled to sleep (but I think that was 10% random thoughts, 90% jet lag!)

It's hard to know what is really happening with anyone's personal relationships or ability to come out of their shell or connect with people now, but one thing I actually discussed with a friend of mine who I met up with in Shanghai the other night was that; my limited ability as an adolescent to speak to my friends online really felt beneficial and healthy to my friendships and relationships. If, between the ages of about 10 - 14/15, I wanted to speak to friends online, I'd have a limited window to do it, in a separate dedicated space (my PC desk) which was also a shared space and screen with my other hobbies, so I had to make a clear choice; do I engage in this hobby (PC gaming, PS2/3, etc.) Whilst at this desk, in this space, or do I socialise online in a limited capacity with people, or do I actually leave this space and watch TV downstairs with my family on the MASSIVE (32/36 inch) flat screen?!

Weirdly, I think it helped me build genuine friendships and relationships, by having forced distance - I wasn't always accessible on my phone, WhatsApp was years off for me and Facebook Messenger had no app - my phone was pretty archaic, so texting was really just for essential use, and I would have much more excitement and curiosity in seeing and meeting people, and honestly I want to sort of manufacture that kind of distance in the future to build more exciting times in friendships.

Despite all that I've said above, the methodical and slower nature of a forum retains that kind of distance I crave I think. It's a bit of a treat being able to sit on the train, see people's posts when I have a spare hour after reading and responding individually.

[Null]

I think you have to be deliberate about this stuff, personally. I've been longing for more friendships recently and missing the ones I've had. But I acknowledge like you I've not always made a friendship/relationship with me an easy thing to have or maintain.

So I've kind of resolved to kind of do better recently. More must be done! The night we went to the Royal Albert Hall is a good example. Stuff like that needs to happen more despite it being sometimes difficult or inconvenient to do so. I loved seeing you all that night and wish I'd made more of an effort to do more. It was really good of you to arrange that whole evening @NateDog

One of the things that I thought a lot about was how if things had turned out differently, Joe would have been there that night. Probably Gary, too. But, I was a lot closer with Joe personally. And it hit me like a truck that despite having a very deep and loving relationship with Joe, we never met, which is one of the worst things EVER. It makes me feel sick every time I think about it. It doesn't cheapen anything, but it does make me more determined to consciously spend more time maintaining and building friendships.

Problem is it requires putting yourself out there which is an eternal issue, I think. Despite being a 36 year old man I'm constantly second guessing myself because apparently the most embarrassing thing in the world these days is sincerity and actually acting as if you care about something. I really want to consciously push back against that idea.

So, yeah. I mean. This is an open invitation to everyone really. Let's all talk more, let's all endeavour to maintain friendships properly. Caring is cool. I'm not suggesting we all become eternal besties (although, why not!?) but perhaps we should all make more of an effort to talk, check-in, and arrange things.

Starting...now.

[NateDog]

I think you have to be deliberate about this stuff, personally. I've been longing for more friendships recently and missing the ones I've had. But I acknowledge like you I've not always made a friendship/relationship with me an easy thing to have or maintain.

So I've kind of resolved to kind of do better recently. More must be done! The night we went to the Royal Albert Hall is a good example. Stuff like that needs to happen more despite it being sometimes difficult or inconvenient to do so. I loved seeing you all that night and wish I'd made more of an effort to do more. It was really good of you to arrange that whole evening @NateDog

One of the things that I thought a lot about was how if things had turned out differently, Joe would have been there that night. Probably Gary, too. But, I was a lot closer with Joe personally. And it hit me like a truck that despite having a very deep and loving relationship with Joe, we never met, which is one of the worst things EVER. It makes me feel sick every time I think about it. It doesn't cheapen anything, but it does make me more determined to consciously spend more time maintaining and building friendships.

Problem is it requires putting yourself out there which is an eternal issue, I think. Despite being a 36 year old man I'm constantly second guessing myself because apparently the most embarrassing thing in the world these days is sincerity and actually acting as if you care about something. I really want to consciously push back against that idea.

So, yeah. I mean. This is an open invitation to everyone really. Let's all talk more, let's all endeavour to maintain friendships properly. Caring is cool. I'm not suggesting we all become eternal besties (although, why not!?) but perhaps we should all make more of an effort to talk, check-in, and arrange things.

Starting...now.

There's a chance I'll be over again before the end of the year with the family. If it happens and we're there for more than a day or two maybe I'll try catch up with some of you again if things work out.

[BigBrother]

Ever end up sitting up late finding it difficult to drift off, or wake up in the middle of the night unable to easily get back to sleep with something occupying your mind that'll probably end unimportant to you when you wake in the morning, but is keeping you up now? You don't necessarily need to be actively looking for answers from others, maybe you just want to get some thoughts written down somewhere. This thread's for you.

---

I watched When Harry Met Sally last yesterday for the first time, and one of the things that (for some reason) stood out to me was these close friends that each of the main characters had outside of work at the various stages in their lives despite the many time jumps in the movie. I feel like that's something I've struggled with over the years a lot. Maybe it's just me and my own personality and inability to retain friendships. I can be very closed off and don't exactly make it easy for people, heck a coworker just the other night was asking me how long we had been working on the same team (we're split up into 4 groups that all normally only interact with each other in passing unless people are working overtime or end up covering gaps in other teams) and I laughed that she's remarked many times that I used to be such a rude bastard and it took years to break me out of my shell with her once she ended up on mine. 

But I have had people that I've spent time with outside of work that I get along with well and it generally ends up the same way. You leave jobs and it just becomes harder to see each other, you try and the other person doesn't so you stop trying (that's how I ended up years without any friends having cut off everyone from my school years a long while back), they move away, etc. I guess I always wonder when I see people that not only maintain these relationships but also continue to forge new ones how they manage to do it. I find it hard to get time for myself to breathe most weeks. Maybe I just encourage it. I go to the cinema alone, I game mostly by myself (apart from the odd occasion with my brother-in-law), I don't drink alcohol so I avoid work nights out most times they happen. I often see people lamenting the challenge of making friends as you get older and away from the years of school, college and that point in life where you're bouncing from job to job and regularly meeting new people your age. 

Is it just the modern age, or has it always been this way for everyone? Do it early or face getting left behind? Maybe I shouldn't miss it. I'm a loner at heart and have been for a long time, something I remind Leelee often when she sees me in those moments where I just want peace and little more for a while. So maybe I've actively asking for it. But every now and again I find myself craving more, different connections with other human beings.

I think it's definitely different than how it was. Maintaining friendships is bloody hard when we're all on different work patterns and we each have five different inboxes ("I sent you a Facebook message" "Oh, I don't use Facebook, Signal me" "Well I don't have Signal, what about WhatsApp?" etc etc etc).

There aren't a ton of shared spaces either, especially when you remove alcohol from the equation. When I was doing my MFA over half the class was international, and they were stunned that if you wanted to socialise after, say, 6pm or 7pm, you really had to head to a pub or bar. Which isn't ideal when you've got work the next morning (or if you don't drink!).

I think we're all living more fragmented, solo-ish lives. It's packaged under independence...but at times it feels like deliberately structured isolation. "Can't meet your friends, feeling lonely? Why not invest in Chat GPT premium - you'll always have someone to talk to" *throws up* And if you're kinda more...solo... by nature (I'm definitely in this bracket too) I think there's a confluence of factors coming together.

tl;dr fuck late stage capitalism.

[st3ve]

I've been making an attempt to make new friendships and renew old ones recently, because I've withdrawn a bit over the past few years. I realised about 4-5 years ago that I've been percieved as a bit strange by others, I mean, I always knew I was a little different, but it had never clicked for me just how different a lot of people thought I was. A lot of what I thought were genuine friendships turned out to be just people using me as something to mock. I began to notice the sarcasm in the tone of people when they spoke to me, and that really began to fuck with me. So I just withdrew from as much social interaction as I could. Now, don't get me wrong, I wasn't left entirely without friends. I've always had a group of close friends that I know genuinely think of me as a friend. However, I certainly have less of a social life, even if I didn't fully understand the nature of a lot of my interactions back then. I decided a few months ago that I can't let my previous experience impact me any longer. I've started getting fitter, and pursuing my hobbies again.  I've definitely started to notice the positive impact more social interaction has on my wellbeing. I don't think I'm ever going to fully put aside the residual suspicion I have from my past experiences, but I think I'm getting to a place where I can be confident that most of my conversations with others are genuine.