Question: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant?

[starschwar]

Moreover, MGS2's finality on that point - Raiden throwing away the dog tags, coupled with Snake's final speech ultimately put a bow on, well, liberty. Raiden is free to be who he wants to be. You, the player, are free to interpret this Total Recall Matrix mind-screw however you want. If it meant something to you, it matters. What it means - that's on you.

Whereas in Phantom Pain, Big Boss takes Venom's passport. Ocelot even tells him to get cosmetic surgery (which probably explains why George Sears's rise to prominence didn't freak out the entire military/espionage community). "You" advanced Venom so far as to become Big Boss's other half. Whereas Big Boss has stolen "your" identity.

I will say that I much prefer the way MGS2 told its story. For all the faults, Kojima is way better when he's verbose. The more minimalistic take on MGSV mostly leaves a hollow feeling. When Can't Say Goodbye to Yesterday started playing, I was left with a profound silence with much to contemplate. When The Man Who Sold The World played again, I was left feeling empty, unsatisfied, and legitimately unsure if that was even the ending. I am not going down the "unfinished" rabbit hole, but those were my feelings at the time.

[Dirty Duck]

(which probably explains why George Sears's rise to prominence didn't freak out the entire military/espionage community)

(does anyone have that fake MGS2 screenshot of Big Boss that someone made way back when? Where they've used Solidus' model and given him a FOXHOUND beret. Can't find it anywhere.)

[starschwar]

Someone needs to update that video to have Solidus blaming the image, not on Photoshop, but on AI. Far more relevant to today, and doubly so for MGS2.

[Dirty Duck]

[Wayno]

Black Mirror, season 2 episode 1.

[BigBrother]

...MGS2 is 25 years old this year. Holy fucking Christ what the fuck?

[Aragorn]

MGS2 and 4 will hold up to the test of time the most. 2 was made with a magic ball, and 4 has never been more relevant than today. If only 4 was a good game....

[DANMATUS]

MGS2 and 4 will hold up to the test of time the most. 2 was made with a magic ball, and 4 has never been more relevant than today. If only 4 was a good game....

Just out of curiosity, what dont you like about 4?

[DANMATUS]

For me, I think MGS2 isn't really about AI, I don't think that's the best analysis that can be made of the game and it's thematic relevance to today.

MGS2 itself has proven to be fucking prophetic for life in the 21st century; the problems that the AI in the final conversation (which are genuine AIs, not LLMs) highlight that humanity is siloing itself; choosing to listen to voices and 'truths' that reinforce what we already believe and are biased towards. 'Truth' dies there; our critical thinking dies there, and our species die. This is as true with liberals and conservatives; although I'd argue moreso with the right but the left is not immune to this phenomenon. That's how humanity dies; not with a bang, but a whimper.

If you think about MGS2 through that lens, it might be the most important game of the 21st century in outlining where we were headed.

"Life isn't just about passing on your genes. We can leave behind much more than just DNA. Through speech, music, literature and movies... what we've seen, heard, felt... anger, joy and sorrow... these are the things I will pass on. That's what I live for. We need to pass the torch, and let our children read our messy and sad history by its light. We have all the magic of the digital age to do that with. The human race will probably come to an end some time, and new species may rule over this planet. Earth may not be forever, but we still have the responsibility to leave what traces of life we can. Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing."

The most profound moment in gaming history!

[BigBrother]

MGS2 and 4 will hold up to the test of time the most. 2 was made with a magic ball, and 4 has never been more relevant than today. If only 4 was a good game....

Just out of curiosity, what dont you like about 4?