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Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - 2generic4you - 22-06-2025
Yeah the AI and mass misinformation are quite prevalent these days but nobody's actually doing anything about them. Instead of creating context through which information is processed through, AI is just creating more junk content itself. In my opinion, AI technology has failed to change this world in any meaningful way and became just another fad in the hands of silicon valley, just like big data and the rest.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - Dirty Duck - 22-06-2025
I appreciate what you’re saying but I think many aspects of the corporate use of AI feels not entirely dissimilar to MGS2’s. AI models are being trained on decades of information that’s been archived and preserved through the efforts of people across the world. Open access information that is readily available to anyone with access to the internet. After this information has been assimilated it is then being scrubbed from the internet leaving their AI models as the only way to access it. By removing the content they do control the context, even if it’s not perceivable. What they are choosing to gatekeep and train the models to not mention is just as powerful a control of context as what MGS2 was discussing. Elon’s little “white genocide in South Africa” escapade with the Twitter AI is an example of the curtain being lifted on what is undoubtedly happening on some level with all of these AI models. Not always necessarily for such obvious propaganda purposes, but these are corporations that manage their public facing operations down to the minutest detail-of course they’re controlling the context of what we have access to.
I think MGS2 and its theme have stayed incredibly relevant. It looked into what was changing in the present and imagined a future that we’ve definitely not strayed too far from imo
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - BigBrother - 22-06-2025
For me, I think MGS2 isn't really about AI, I don't think that's the best analysis that can be made of the game and it's thematic relevance to today.
MGS2 itself has proven to be fucking prophetic for life in the 21st century; the problems that the AI in the final conversation (which are genuine AIs, not LLMs) highlight that humanity is siloing itself; choosing to listen to voices and 'truths' that reinforce what we already believe and are biased towards. 'Truth' dies there; our critical thinking dies there, and our species die. This is as true with liberals and conservatives; although I'd argue moreso with the right but the left is not immune to this phenomenon. That's how humanity dies; not with a bang, but a whimper.
If you think about MGS2 through that lens, it might be the most important game of the 21st century in outlining where we were headed.
"Life isn't just about passing on your genes. We can leave behind much more than just DNA. Through speech, music, literature and movies... what we've seen, heard, felt... anger, joy and sorrow... these are the things I will pass on. That's what I live for. We need to pass the torch, and let our children read our messy and sad history by its light. We have all the magic of the digital age to do that with. The human race will probably come to an end some time, and new species may rule over this planet. Earth may not be forever, but we still have the responsibility to leave what traces of life we can. Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing."
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - 2generic4you - 23-06-2025
(22-06-2025, 10:37 PM)BigBrother Wrote: For me, I think MGS2 isn't really about AI, I don't think that's the best analysis that can be made of the game and it's thematic relevance to today.
MGS2 itself has proven to be fucking prophetic for life in the 21st century; the problems that the AI in the final conversation (which are genuine AIs, not LLMs) highlight that humanity is siloing itself; choosing to listen to voices and 'truths' that reinforce what we already believe and are biased towards. 'Truth' dies there; our critical thinking dies there, and our species die. This is as true with liberals and conservatives; although I'd argue moreso with the right but the left is not immune to this phenomenon. That's how humanity dies; not with a bang, but a whimper.
If you think about MGS2 through that lens, it might be the most important game of the 21st century in outlining where we were headed.
"Life isn't just about passing on your genes. We can leave behind much more than just DNA. Through speech, music, literature and movies... what we've seen, heard, felt... anger, joy and sorrow... these are the things I will pass on. That's what I live for. We need to pass the torch, and let our children read our messy and sad history by its light. We have all the magic of the digital age to do that with. The human race will probably come to an end some time, and new species may rule over this planet. Earth may not be forever, but we still have the responsibility to leave what traces of life we can. Building the future and keeping the past alive are one and the same thing."
I do agree with your statement but I'd argue that MGS4 got a lot more stuff right at the of the day. It's crazy how Kojima is the only game director managed to predict so much about the future in his works.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - Dirty Duck - 23-06-2025
(23-06-2025, 10:57 AM)2generic4you Wrote: I do agree with your statement but I'd argue that MGS4 got a lot more stuff right at the of the day. It's crazy how Kojima is the only game director managed to predict so much about the future in his works.
What major predictions in MGS4 are you thinking of out of interest? I do agree Kojima's games do often feel to be quite eerily accurate. Death Stranding being perhaps the maddest example, though that was more bad luck for the human race than anything else but it ended up being a pretty great portrayal of how we maintain feelings of togetherness thanks to digital connections and the efforts of key workers.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - BigBrother - 23-06-2025
The part of MGS4 that really, really worked is how gen algorithms would dictate what is made and sold to us; and how that defines so much of our current version of late stage capitalism. That's bang on the money. But I think MGS2 is more prophetic, as it was fundamentally about the destruction of truth and the illusion of free will.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - Departed - 24-06-2025
Honestly, I think Peace Walker broaches the subject of generative AI more directly than MGS2. The whole question plaguing Snake is whether or not this machine is a person he loved that's gone, or just a hunk of codes that can replicate her without actually being her. Not to mention Coldman letting AI handle something as severe as nuclear deterrence.
That said, MGS2's theme of disinformation and how humans only hear the truths they wanna hear and can be conditioned into believing any truth some bad actors decide on feels more relevant than ever.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - BigBrother - 27-06-2025
MGS2 is the true masterpiece of the Metal Gear series. It really makes me weep that it didn't really get a sequel. Who needs a proper sequel when you have nanomachines...
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - starschwar - 25-08-2025
One of the best and worst compliments someone can pay a piece of downer/dystopian Sci-Fi is to say that it still holds up - or worse, has become more relevant with time. Sons of Liberty absolutely achieves this criteria. I agree with Departed on Peace Walker's continuation of the themes, but I think that was just one of many facets of that story. So much of MGS2 gels together thanks to the themes of truth, freedom, and the manipulation of both.
RE: Do you think MGS2's themes and ideas are actually still relevant? - Dirty Duck - 25-08-2025
(27-06-2025, 10:49 AM)BigBrother Wrote: MGS2 is the true masterpiece of the Metal Gear series. It really makes me weep that it didn't really get a sequel. Who needs a proper sequel when you have nanomachines...I kind of respect the way each entry tries to not retread the same themes. As good as MGS2 is it maybe achieved the pinnacle of what it was trying to do-so it’s good the sequel did something different.
I know some people were disappointed by the Patriots bait and switch but in many ways the reveal that they’re all dead and that the show is purely being run by an AI goes hand in hand with MGS4’s themes of mortality and the way the systems put in place by those in power seek to strip people of their identity. Soldiers, the government, all tarred with the same brush. You can’t dehumanise one without it dehumanising us all. And in a way that’s what the nanomachines do too. All of the series’ loose ends and supernatural elements are centralised and reduced to a singular homogenous machine.
In a strange way MGSV feels like the true companion piece to MGS2. The two false Snakes and their journeys of discovery that run parallel but in opposite directions. MGS2 tells us Raiden isn’t the player, MGSV tells us the player is Big Boss. Both are about those in positions of power controlling the narrative to have the protagonists play the role of Snake. Raiden rejects that role while Venom accepts it.
I’ve had 2 hours sleep