Question: 10 Years On: What do you think of MGSV?

[starschwar]

I do like the ambiguity of whether Venom's Outer Heaven was merely an elaborate human shield for the 'real' movement that would take form in Zanzibar Land, or if it was indeed a a rival interpretation of The Boss's will that the original Big Boss liquidated to solidify his grip on the cause. In an ideal "the game is really finished and feels like it" scenario, a Chapter 3 or later could deal with that, with both Big Bosses and The Patriots tying in to the three mega-states of George Orwell's 1984 - all locked in a perpetual clash, all having the same goal of realizing The Boss's dream, much like all three in the novel having the same ideology in everything but name. All hypocrites with dirty hands. Always shifting alliances against the third group. Miller's relationship with Cipher is a good example of this.

[Aragorn]

I finally got around to starting TPP again and I’m going through the hospital intro. What’s so frustrating about this game is we won’t really know what the final product was meant to be; but that intro really screams to me that Kojima was done with MGS long ago. It’s such an effective horror sequence - and you can tell his aesthetic fixation on whales started well before Death Stranding was a thing.

Maybe MGS V was always meant to be this. Maybe it feeling incomplete was Kojima’s last fuck you to a fanbase incapable of letting him move on. Wouldn’t put it past him.

As frustrating as this game is, it’s also why it’s consistently fascinating to think about. What a weird little game.

[Aragorn]

Playing through more of the game now. Honey Bee mission. Was it ever explained what the fuck is up with ''Eyes on Kazuhira''? it feels like there was a betrayal subplot in there somewhere (it's not actually Huey, but Kaz) that got scrapped.

I sometimes wonder if there was a cognizant shift in the game's direction mid way once the Kojima <> Konami tensions reached a boiling point. I'm not talking about cut content, but Kojima purposefully redirecting the game in a different direction to turn into a thank you for the fans with the whole ''we're all Big Boss'' thing since it was his final MGS, and the game being turned into a glorified diss track - same with PT (if you believe the analysis that the game is meta commentary on Konami <> Kojima with the aborted embryo being MGSV) .

Mind you it does beg the question how Konami would be okay with that being their biggest game release of 2015; but you never know - because it really does feel sometimes that the game has the set up of the ''standard'' story everyone expected (Big Boss' traditional fall from grace as a revenge story) but then it just goes somewhere else and that separate direction has varying degrees of successful pay off - like a weird patchwork.

It would have been interesting to see a version that positions the doppelganger twist towards the beginning of the game. Maybe after Act 1 - and then focuses more on Venom as a character and how he deals with the revelation (and his slow split from Big Boss, the ''demon inside him'' that he refers to). The fact that he's called ''Venom'' but is infact a pacifist is in itself oddly funny.

There is SUCH a cool skeleton somewhere in this game and a story around identity and what makes us who we are as people; but it's just that - a skeleton. maybe the phantom pain is the phantom friends we made along the way idk.

[starschwar]

My interpretation about Miller's betrayal:

As with most of TPP this is ambiguous, subject to interpretation. Here is one I somewhat subscribe to. I've posted parts of this recently, forgive my repetition:

I think Miller and Ocelot's post-credit conversation happens very early in the game - at some point before the Honey Bee mission. Miller was in the operating room - he knew Big Boss had both arms and no shrapnel horn - the Medic was the one with those afflictions, Miller saw it himself, asked the docs about him. When Big boss appealed to him to "tell me what to do, like before" - that's the moment. The moment he realized this truly was not the man he had been waiting nine years for. After recovering from captivity, he confronts Ocelot (post-credits conversation), and embarks on his multi-faceted revenge. Skull Face, Cipher, Big Boss - all of 'em. That's why he prioritizes the financial reward for the Stingers over "Big Boss's" safety, orders Quiet to be killed when she reached Mother Base - hell, I think he's the one who sent that jet after the chopper! That attack never happens if Venom executes Quiet. Promising "no lynch mob" while doing just that with Huey's show trial.

And - if I'm right. If he promised to make Venom and Big Boss's unwanted "sons" stronger that early? I can't rule out the possibility that Miller framed Huey for the outbreak and orchestrated Eli's escape, etc.

I'm probably giving this story way too much credit. But I feel like the pieces fit.

[Aragorn]

My interpretation about Miller's betrayal:

As with most of TPP this is ambiguous, subject to interpretation. Here is one I somewhat subscribe to. I've posted parts of this recently, forgive my repetition:

I think Miller and Ocelot's post-credit conversation happens very early in the game - at some point before the Honey Bee mission. Miller was in the operating room - he knew Big Boss had both arms and no shrapnel horn - the Medic was the one with those afflictions, Miller saw it himself, asked the docs about him. When Big boss appealed to him to "tell me what to do, like before" - that's the moment. The moment he realized this truly was not the man he had been waiting nine years for. After recovering from captivity, he confronts Ocelot (post-credits conversation), and embarks on his multi-faceted revenge. Skull Face, Cipher, Big Boss - all of 'em. That's why he prioritizes the financial reward for the Stingers over "Big Boss's" safety, orders Quiet to be killed when she reached Mother Base - hell, I think he's the one who sent that jet after the chopper! That attack never happens if Venom executes Quiet. Promising "no lynch mob" while doing just that with Huey's show trial.

And - if I'm right. If he promised to make Venom and Big Boss's unwanted "sons" stronger that early? I can't rule out the possibility that Miller framed Huey for the outbreak and orchestrated Eli's escape, etc.

I'm probably giving this story way too much credit. But I feel like the pieces fit.

If I remember correctly - Miller says he will prop up one son (Solid Snake) while Ocelot says he will prop up another (Liquid Snake) - which neatly settles in with what happens with Kaz in MGS1. Pretty crazy how the throw away weapon's instructor became such a big part of the franchise.

[Dirty Duck]

Playing through more of the game now. Honey Bee mission. Was it ever explained what the fuck is up with ''Eyes on Kazuhira''? it feels like there was a betrayal subplot in there somewhere (it's not actually Huey, but Kaz) that got scrapped.

I think it was mainly an attempt to breed distrust in Diamond Dogs, but it’s referring to the fact that Kaz was Cipher’s mole in MSF. As XOF was part of Cipher until Skullface went rogue it wouldn’t be outlandish to believe that Kaz’s actions led to the attack if you believe that Cipher was involved at all (with Kaz himself not believing that Zero had nothing to do with it).