Returning to MGS4 in 2025: A Retrospective

[NateDog]

What's always frustrated me about Act 3 is the solution to fixing the first chunk would be pretty simple.  Let us tail the guy if we so choose, but give us options to find the cathedral on our own using radio chatter or just bumming around until we find it.  Like how "On The Trail" is a tailing mission in MGSV, but if you already know where The Major is, you can avoid the tail and just B-Line straight to the meetup spot and take him out.  Because I do like the idea of sneaking around in an occupied European city, but much of it is kind of moot when you can't enjoy the ride as much tailing the boob.

One thing I've noticed about the fight with Raven is, it feels more enjoyable if you don't go to the top of the tower.  Fighting her in the lower parts of the tower itself has a more engaging feel to it since she's flying in and out and much closer in range so dodging feels more high stakes.

Yeah, I forgot about this and tried it this time. Even though it had been years I remembered exactly where to go especially in the final part. As for Raven, I tried it but just didn't bother with it in the end. If a boss battle requires you to go out of your way to make it interesting, difficult or fun then it's just poorly designed.

[NateDog]

Act 4 - "I was having that dream again."

This act is a bit of an anomaly in that (excluding boss battles) there are no human enemies. I think almost everyone felt that it was a disappointing design choice when it was released, and it still feels the same way now. It was an understandable design choice given the progression of the story, but given the amount of leniency with other creative decisions that felt like they were pushing the boundaries a little too much in places, I'm sure it could have worked and would have made this section perfect.

There are so many wonderful touches here to make this an incredibly nostalgic return to Shadow Moses. Metal Gear Solid 1 is my favourite game of all time for a number of reasons, but MGS4 goes out of its way to draw from its atmosphere and most memorable moments. The intro alone being a replay of MGS1's original opening entry into the tank hangar (played as a dream of Snake's, ending with a pixelated Young Snake - Old Snake jumpscare) sets the scene, followed by a number of flashbacks across the act, some of which you have to find and trigger yourself, others you'll come across through the story. Traversing through Shadow Moses this time is unfortunately not as fun as it felt like it could be, given your main aim is to either avoid or use chaff grenades on mechanical enemies like dwarf gekko, with one super fun section requiring you to distract a gekko for 2-3 minutes depending on the difficulty (although if you get irritated enough you can just blow it up).

When recently pondering over which MGS entry has the best boss battles, something reminded me that MGS4 is absolutely up there and Act 4 arguably is a very big part of this argument. Crying Wolf is the first of these and it's a pretty enjoyable one if playing non-lethal. I'm rarely ever keen on boss battles that throw minions into the mix to add difficulty, I feel it's generally an irritating and lazy design choice. But I can't deny that having the FROGS searching for Snake alongside Wolf fits in relatively well here (not to mention Wolf's desire to crush Snake with means she'll often smash right into them as she runs around the snowfield with reckless abandon). As well as being able to traverse the entire snowfield as you aim to locate the rampaging Wolf, you also have two scalable communication towers. Ordinarily in a sniping battle, this would likely encourage the player to just camp out up high and wait for an opening. However, the FROGS patrol everywhere and are sensitive to sound, meaning just hanging about up high isn't exactly a straightforward option as they actively look for Snake, and are very sensitive to the noise of him walking around the towers or of his night-vision goggles (which are the easiest way of spotting Wolf). One other aspect of this is that smell is a factor too, so Wolf is able to find a stationary Snake fairly easily if you stay in one spot for too long thanks to the changing wind direction. Even if you're staying up high, she'll lob explosives towards you on passing. In a series that is fond of a sniper battle, this is yet another unique addition/edition even if it isn't one of the most memorable ones.

If you ever did the MGS2 European Extreme challenge, the sight of a lively Vamp running towards you as you play as an aged Solid Snake is probably enough to make you want to put the game down like the AI Colonel told you to (which, by the way, I did on my first MGS2 playthrough; I had been sitting in a dark room for hours on end and was a little sleep deprived at the point that he calls you demanding you turn the console off. Can't say I slept very well that night). Snake is clearly outmatched for speed and agility but has the firepower to deal with Vamp... only to find him (yet again) rising from the dead. I managed to figure out the trick to this fight without needing assistance the first time I played MGS4 which I was quite happy with, relying on Snake grabbing a dazed Vamp post-resurrection and jabbing him with the syringe. It's a fairly straightforward fight with the novelty of needing the syringe to finish him off, but I think it's a decent feature that can be figured out easily enough if you've been paying attention to the story.

I think it's fair to say that Act 4's finale is one of the best moments in the series. It's a shame that this was spoiled pre-release in trailers (as is the traditional Kojima way), but getting to pilot REX in a battle against RAY is something that I don't think anyone expected when the general outline of MGS4 was known. Getting to utilise all of the abilities REX used to terrorise Snake in MGS1 here against RAY is about as cool a moment as Kojima has given us. After the battle we get to see Liquid Ocelot heading for Outer Haven and giggling at Snake, who for some reason thinks tipping himself over out of REX's cockpit and dislocating his shoulder will be a good way to stop him (note: it isn't, but it is far too funny to not mention).

[Departed]

Fun fact: originally there was gonna be a Russian PMC group that occupied Shadow Moses and I am so bummed that they were cut. Some of their gear is still in MGO2, in fact. From a design perspective, it makes perfect sense and really does add to that sense of desolation that Shadow Moses evokes. All of its life truly is gone, and it does a great job of making you feel isolated. The Gekko's are certainly still intimidating and used well in this sequence, but I think I would've preferred a new mech type for this area that was still like human guards but smarter and harder to evade. The scarabs are just too easy to deal with.

The boss fights really are the highlight and I love how there are so many back to back in this one act. Wolf is easily one of my favorite bosses in the whole series, and it just makes me wish MGS4 had more of them, given their earlier plans with cut characters like Snake-Man and Adam.

I have a whole new appreciation for the Vamp fight because like you said, you really are outmatched against him and you feel it. What's great though is that the game doesn't tell you that you can actually shake Vamp off. Like, if you blast him and knock him back with a shotgun, you can run and hide using Octo-Camo and debris for cover. Vamp can actually lose track of Snake and start slowly stalking through the arena seeking him out, hunching low when he looks for you, and you can ambush him by grappling him before you fully kill him and injecting him on the spot.

[NateDog]

Fun fact: originally there was gonna be a Russian PMC group that occupied Shadow Moses and I am so bummed that they were cut.  Some of their gear is still in MGO2, in fact.  From a design perspective, it makes perfect sense and really does add to that sense of desolation that Shadow Moses evokes.  All of its life truly is gone, and it does a great job of making you feel isolated.  The Gekko's are certainly still intimidating and used well in this sequence, but I think I would've preferred a new mech type for this area that was still like human guards but smarter and harder to evade.  The scarabs are just too easy to deal with.

The boss fights really are the highlight and I love how there are so many back to back in this one act.  Wolf is easily one of my favorite bosses in the whole series, and it just makes me wish MGS4 had more of them, given their earlier plans with cut characters like Snake-Man and Adam. 

I have a whole new appreciation for the Vamp fight because like you said, you really are outmatched against him and you feel it.  What's great though is that the game doesn't tell you that you can actually shake Vamp off.  Like, if you blast him and knock him back with a shotgun, you can run and hide using Octo-Camo and debris for cover.  Vamp can actually lose track of Snake and start slowly stalking through the arena seeking him out, hunching low when he looks for you, and you can ambush him by grappling him before you fully kill him and injecting him on the spot.

I actually noticed this for the first time this time around, he days something like "huh? Gone again". I thought he constantly had a lock on you.

[Silent Assassin]

I still LOVE the game. And I mean LOVE.

It lived up to the hype for me. Despite all the story issues it's still a game that's full on fanservice and it doesn't care if you didn't follow the series and won't understand some of it.

It's not the smartest story in the series but it's over the top fun all the way through.

[NateDog]

Oops, I sort of forgot to update this.

Act 5 - "Anybody got a smoke?"

A battered, bruised and burned Snake is still willing to crack a few bleak jokes about his impending death and volunteers himself to get cooked alive by the microwave emitters in the corridors going towards the AI they intend to destroy. Outer Haven is the most linear section of the game, comprising of one small sneaking section on the bow of the ship as Snake proceeds to the centre, alongside a couple of boss fights. Plus a few hours of cutscenes. The sneaking section is actually decent as the FROGS are actively on the search for intruders and you have a few ways to take this section on. There are vents you can crawl through below (which I genuinely never noticed until this playthrough), you can climb up high, or you can try to sneak through the main area. Much like with the end of Act 1, it's just a bit too short. Hard not to feel like this couldn't have been expanded a bit (a little bit of an MGS2 Tanker chapter-like sequel?) as it's a nice challenge on higher difficulties and felt like the type of sneaking challenge that I like in a Metal Gear game.

After this you're launched head-on into a battle against the FROGS in a circular chamber and then have to take on Screaming Mantis. It's an obvious nostalgia trip for MGS1 fans but the battle is quite different to that of Psycho Mantis, as she utilises the bodies of FROGS and Meryl to try to take down Snake. Needing to knock her dolls down to take her power away from her makes for a fairly decent battle, although then acquiring those dolls to beat her does make it a bit trivial on subsequent playthroughs.

There's one more boss battle before things finish up, the final encounter between Snake and Liquid Ocelot atop Outer Haven. Perhaps one of the most fitting final tributes to the lasting legacy of MGS1, 2 and 3, this mirrors the hand-to-hand battle on top of Metal Gear REX that Snake and Liquid fought at the end of MGS1, but with the 3 stages representing each of the above games through its changing music and Liquid's attacking style. Liquid Ocelot goes all the way from a basic punch and kicking combo (MGS1) up to utilising CQC grabs and attacks (MGS3). The final (MGS4) phase of the fight brings us back to reality, highlighting the fact that this is a struggle between two aged men whose glory days are long behind them.

Pre and post-battle, the majority of this act is made up of cutscenes, including some of the more egregious ones of the series. Snake getting cooked (not as the kids say) in the microwave corridor while we see the rest of the battle of Outer Haven taking place simultaneously is probably the one exception and is arguably one of the more affecting scenes of the series. However if that is the exception, then the norm involves things like Raiden transforming into an armless lightning conduit; Johnny going from incompetent buffoon to expert sniper and making Meryl fall head-over-heels through this newfound battle prowess; Drebin explaining why its OK that he was MGS4's deus ex machina, and more of that stupid monkey; the return of Big Boss so he can talk about nanomachines, The Boss and The Patriots for an age; and Ocelot's (very brief and rushed) reveal that he was never really Liquid and was just pretending and hypnotised himself. It's all quite sloppy, but it does provide us with that sense of events in the Metal Gear Solid series coming to a close.

[Blueblob]

Did you let Ocelot smooch you though??

[NateDog]

Did you let Ocelot smooch you though??

Every single time.

[BigBrother]

I've really enjoyed these Nate. MGS4 is, if nothing else, unashamedly bombastic. It does help if you don't think too much about it, I personally have found it really hard to accept it for what it is as opposed to what I wish it was (as well written and considered as MGS2 is, MGS4 being...not that...has always been really jarring). The last act especially feels like the Charlie Always Sunny Pepe Silvia meme, it's insanely convoluted.

I try to hang on to playing it as a 17 year old and the chills/goosebumps when the credits stopped on 'Big Boss' and how that made me feel, because I don't think time and replays are very kind to MGS4.

[NateDog]

I've really enjoyed these Nate. MGS4 is, if nothing else, unashamedly bombastic. It does help if you don't think too much about it, I personally have found it really hard to accept it for what it is as opposed to what I wish it was (as well written and considered as MGS2 is, MGS4 being...not that...has always been really jarring). The last act especially feels like the Charlie Always Sunny Pepe Silvia meme, it's insanely convoluted.

Hahahah, I never thought of this but it feels like the perfect description of almost everything from MGS4 onwards.

Also thanks! I was going to just bulk save the first batch of posts here to keep it together but I thought that multiple posts are combined into one. I'll try tidy it up later. I'll have my final thoughts up soon!