Global Politics - General Chat

[Aragorn]

bait used to be believable. how the mighty have fallen.

[TomRL101]

Cope
Appeal to bait fallacy?

[Aragorn]

I simply do not argue for the love of the game anymore - so it’s either bad bait or you’re just a regressive moron in big 2025. Either way, it’s not particularly compelling for me to fight over.

[TomRL101]

Unfortunately for you, I and millions of others believe exactly what I posted, and you probably can't refute it. "Bait" is often a cope. I don't argue for the game any more, either. I prefer playing the game of being as accurate as possible and leave the winning for something else.

[Aragorn]

millions used to believe that the earth is flat too - but what can you expect from a populace obsessed with respectability politics & optics over reality?

[TomRL101]

millions used to believe that the earth is flat too - but what can you expect from a populace obsessed with respectability politics & optics over reality?

I'm not making an appeal to popularity here. People usually accuse others of bait based on the idea that no one seriously believes what the other guy is posting. That is obviously not true in my case, though, so that just leaves cope.

Respectability is lame though.

[Aragorn]

For your sake, I really do hope it’s bait.

[TomRL101]

For your sake, I really do hope it’s bait.

For your sake, you ought to adopt these things that I believe. Walking the streets, thinking that everyone is a Nazi out to get you, is mental illness. I pretty much agree on the Palestine thing, though.

[Departed]

I don't personally believe that anything you are saying is being said in good faith because I don't believe you want to actually have a conversation. The framing of all of your recent posts suggests that you are more interested in berating others for having an opinion you find offensive.

So whether you want to call Kirk a white nationalist or not, I won't bother with semantics. I'll simply say that Kirk's presence on social media actively harmed others. He called for trans people to be dealt with the way that they were dealt with in the 50's, referring to them all as pedophiles and dangerous for children despite conservatives doing more harm to children, like Trump's faith guy just getting nabbed for child pornography a few weeks ago, or all the republican representatives who hard line hate trans people then get outed as pedophiles.

He had a list of professors that he put out there for his followers to focus endless harassment on in the hopes of forcing them out of universities because, according to him, they espoused "woke ideology." More often than not, it was female professors of color getting the brunt of endless harassment from Kirk's followers, some even had to get campus security assigned to them due to a barrage of death threats brought upon them thanks to Kirk.

Kirk was a college dropout who knew nothing about the high skill level jobs he said black people "DEI-ed" their way into, gleefully oblivious to the fact that even working your way up to those positions meant you had to be skilled enough to earn your way up, ergo, not "didn't earn it'ed" up.

I mean, if we wanna talk "Didn't Earn It," look at the entirety of Trump's regime, because Kirk, for all his pearl-clutching about black people, certainly never did.

Trump, himself, for instance, is a failed businessman who bankrupted six businesses, defrauded countless contractors that he outlasted in court by virtue of having the money to do so, and apart from Operation Warpspeed, First Step and a bumpstock ban that his own SCOTUS undid last year, no material good came from his first term in office to justify reelecting him, even without factoring in J6, bungling COVID, trying to start a war with Iran, his civilly liable sexual abuse, his civilly liable fraud charges and his 34 felony convictions. His first term consisted of causing gas prices in the U.S. to skyrocket after pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal, bankrupting farmers with his failed trade war with China, a Muslim ban which barred Muslims from entering the U.S., including to get healthcare treatment in a nation where their families reside, and a reduction in what freelancers making under X amount of money could use as tax write-offs. That doesn't touch all the generally horrible things brought on by Trump, like an increase in hate crimes, a tax break for the rich that never trickled down to us, and an economic crash that was only dulled because COVID hit before the estimated recession could. His kids are also barred from holding charities in New York because they ran a charity that ended up defrauding a children's cancer initiative out of millions.

The rest of his regime doesn't exactly fare much better:

- Head of HHS is an environmental lawyer who has zero knowledge of epidemiology or human health.
- Head of Education is the wife of a wrestling mogul with no actual knowledge on education or the needs of educators.
- The AG was a political activist who made it her sole purpose to undo ACA and netted herself one failed lawsuit after another, including repping Trump on case after case in which she lost.
- Head of DoD is a former Fox News talking head.
- Director of the FBI is a former prosecutor and conspiracy theorist with next to no knowledge of executive law or handling executive level prosecutions.
- Deputy director of the FBI is a podcaster who used to be a secret service agent, neither of which qualifies him for the job which he has made clear he doesn't even want anymore.

Almost none of the people in this regime have the qualifications or backgrounds that warrant them being in the positions they're in. Their only qualification is that they'll do whatever Trump tells them to do, regardless of its legality. For all the grandstanding and "concern trolling" that people like Kirk did and continue to do, it's always about non-white people, never the white people who are grossly unqualified for these insanely high ranking jobs. And the only reason Patel wasn't facing pushback until he got thrown under the bus by Bondi is because he's full on Team Trump.

Nothing Charlie Kirk did was ever in good faith. His end goal was always to make regression and intolerance seem "based" to young people, because he, TPUSA and the Heritage Foundation's sole purpose was to get these kids voting for the most regressive, extremist right wingers to pass the most draconian bills into law they could, like the abortion ban that is now claiming the lives of a staggering amount of women in Texas right now, whose deaths in hospital parking lots are being covered up.

That, in and of itself is political violence. Now, you have lawmakers on the right calling for women who get abortions to be executed. For you to say that the left are the violent ones isn't just farcical, it's downright a rejection of reality. The right are the violent ones. It's republicans en masse who, upon Kirk's death, called for war against libs before the shooter was even caught, and now that the kid has been caught, the FBI has admitted that they can't find anything to link him to an actual leftist ideology to make the story you're trying to spin a reality. "He had a trans roommate" means nothing.

Conversely, we do know that the man who killed Melissa Hortman, her husband, and their dog, then tried to kill John Hoffman and his wife was a far right activist and head of a security firm who had a hitlist of democrats in Minnesota that he wanted to take out to end their majority in the state. We know the guy who just shot up that church was a republican. We know J6 was orchestrated by republicans. We know the guy who broke into Nancy Pelosi's house and caved her husband's skull in was a republican (which Kirk also mocked, and joked that the MAGA freak was actually some gay liberal lover of Paul Pelosi's and urged "patriots" to bail him out and confirm his political ideology). We know that it was republicans en masse who called for liberals to be killed over Kirk's assassination. We know it's right wingers and only right wingers who send death threats to elderly poll workers, judges and teachers because of the lies spread by people like Kirk and Trump. We also know that Trump's former FBI director made it clear as day that ANTIFA wasn't a threat to Americans, but far right nationalist groups certainly were, because they were the ones actively creating boot camps for killing people and had plans to enact murders, like the plot to execute Gretchen Whitmer live.

It's also republicans who are prone to sending death threats and love to boast about having all the guns.

No matter how you try and spin it, history is not on your side. Most political violence within the United States is carried out by right wingers. The vast majority of mass shootings are carried out by right wingers. The facts are not on your side, which is ironic because it's republicans who love to say "facts don't care about your feelings," but when presented with facts that contradict them, it turns out that their feelings don't care about the facts.

Far as god is concerned, believe what you choose to believe, just don't try and force that belief onto others.

As for Kirk's stance on Israel, that wasn't because of any moral conflict he had with the carpet bombing of an entire region for two years. It was because he was losing Pro-Israel big money donors to TPUSA. His own text messages which TPUSA confirmed were legit, made clear that he only said "he may have to leave the Israeli cause" because the money was starting to dry up and he didn't want to not platform Tucker Carlson and that other guy. Kirk himself couldn't have cared less about Arabs getting blown to bits and, far as I've seen, never once voiced condemnation of the mass slaughter of Palestinians.

Finally, as for all of us being inherently abhorrent? We're all inherently flawed. It's recognizing those flaws and trying to do better that keeps a person from being abhorrent. If you're a person who recognizes your flaws and does nothing to actually fix them; if you're someone who is wicked to others, sexist, racist, generally bigoted or hate-filled and embraces that instead of trying to not be that, then yes, that person is abhorrent. It isn't abhorrent to despise wickedness. It's not abhorrent or hypocritical to despise bigotry.

Nor is it hyperbolic to call what's happening in Portland or Chicago fascism. Because sending the military into areas where their presence isn't needed or warranted and raiding apartment buildings to drag out old folks and kids, all of color, in the hopes of stoking enough anger to get a violent reaction to justify implementing marshal law is attempt at a fascistic takeover. The inability to see that demonstrates a gross disconnect with the reality of what is actually happening in this country, and that alone makes me not want to engage because I don't believe that you actually want to hear others out.

[TomRL101]

Partly true. I am honest with what I believe, but I can't say that my posts were in good faith. I want him to look stupid because the things he's saying are stupid, and he's a political opponent. I'm arguing with a clone internet leftist that thinks Hitler is around every corner. It's old hat tbh. I don't have anything against Aragorn otherwise though fr.

I could make arguments against some of these points you make, but half of them would get me banned from the forum. An honest, good faith discussion can't be had in left wing circles. Some points I'm also just uninformed about, like the part on Trump himself, so I'll cherry-pick some.

"It's republicans en masse who, upon Kirk's death, called for war against libs before the shooter was even caught, and now that the kid has been caught, the FBI has admitted that they can't find anything to link him to an actual leftist ideology to make the story you're trying to spin a reality. "He had a trans roommate" means nothing."

I don't think you're a liar, so you are just severely deluded on this one. This quote is laughably wrong, and you ought to think again because it makes you look silly. Left-wingers celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk on mass, and we have hours of footage to prove it. They've never been held accountable, so they just post it freely. Right-wingers responded by cancelling leftists, a game that the left has been playing for ten years, and got so bored that they have now moved on to shooting their opponents in the head instead. This is not exactly violence being met with violence. The right is traditionally much slower to violence, as any reasonable person knows. We have an attempted political assassination, a successful assassination, all of summer 2020, and numerous trans church-shootings as evidence of left-wing violence. You're not even close on this one.

He had a trans roommate. Meaning almost certainly leftist. Also, one of his rounds had "hey fascist" written on it. Do you really think some right-winger (almost all of which are more extreme than Kirk), is going to write "hey fascist" on a bullet casing? It's hard for me to believe you aren't playing dumb on this one.

"like the abortion ban that is now claiming the lives of a staggering amount of women in Texas right now"
If that's true, I don't support it. Abortion should be considered when the mother is in danger. The vast majority of abortions are done for convenience, though, so this legislation is at least a net positive. It's astonishing to me how leftists can focus on the suffering of women when it comes to abortion laws and yet have their eyes completely welded shut to the THOUSANDS OF BABIES THAT WERE SAVED FROM BEING MURDERED. How have they completely blinded themselves to mass death of innocent babies? Surely, there's something deeply rotten about these people.

Sorry lad, we're not just flawed. We're ALL evil, every single one of us. Yes, there are levels to it, but we are all evil. If you really introspect, you'll find it.

"Far as god is concerned, believe what you choose to believe, just don't try and force that belief onto others."
Why should I subscribe to this? Is there a good reason? I'm willing to guess that this is a belief you think should be forced on Christians.

Jesus overrides every other rule I held. I'm going to continue to talk about the reality of god and take the punishment that comes with that. Nothing else matters.

My eyes hurt from looking at this page for so long. Can we have a night mode?