Global Politics - General Chat

[Webbie2689]

I understand having no sympathy for Charlie Kirk, but let me ask this:

Do any of you think what Tyler Robinson did is admirable and worth celebrating? Do you feel we need more of this around the world, specifically where people are assassinated because we don’t like or agree with another person’s POV?

If there’s someone out there actively hurting, murdering, or seriously impacting other people’s lives with their behavior I’m not always gonna be against getting rid of people like that, but if we’re claiming that what Charlie Kirk was doing falls in that category I guess I can’t see how anyone has come to that conclusion, unless your stance is that “well his opinions hurt my feelings” in which case I’d argue that you need to grow thicker skin.

I’m just saying it’s crazy he was assassinated for the reasons he was assassinated for, and actively celebrating it because you feel he’s a shit person is just weird behavior that also puts you in that shit person category.

[Wayno]

I understand having no sympathy for Charlie Kirk, but let me ask this:

Do any of you think what Tyler Robinson did is admirable and worth celebrating?

No. Murder is always wrong. So is preaching hate.

unless your stance is that “well his opinions hurt my feelings” in which case I’d argue that you need to grow thicker skin.

He's not made fun of someone's nose. He's not mocked their lack of ability at sports. Saying about Trans people that they should be “taken care of the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" is not a "difference of opinion" it's advocating of extreme action against a marginalised group on a massive platform. There's plenty more I don't have time to quote but dismissing everything he's said as just "it's just words" is inherently dismissing the real-world consequences of spreading dehumanising rhetoric. Words like his fuel hostility, shape policy, and embolden people who already lean toward violence. To brush it off as “just words” is to ignore how hate speech translates into discrimination, self-harm, and even attacks on those communities. It’s not about hurt feelings—it’s about the safety and dignity of people who are already vulnerable.

[Departed]

So the shooter was just caught and because Kash Patel and podcaster Dan Bongino are so spectacularly incompetent, the FBI didn't catch him. The shooter's own dad turned him in.

Kid's name is Tyler Robinson. He's a 22 year old student at Utah Valley University. He had no party affiliation, last registering to vote in 2021, which was also the first time he was old enough to vote. And he comes from a family obsessed with guns.

I can't get over the bullet engravings though.

"If you read this, you are gay LMAO"
"Notices bulge, OWO, what's this?"

Ocelot said engravings give us no tactical advantage, but that definitely hurt the FBI in confusion.

[Departed]

I understand having no sympathy for Charlie Kirk, but let me ask this:

Do any of you think what Tyler Robinson did is admirable and worth celebrating? Do you feel we need more of this around the world, specifically where people are assassinated because we don’t like or agree with another person’s POV?

Most people aren't celebrating it though.  Some are, sure, but the rest of us are saying quite clearly that while we don't condone his murder, we won't lose sleep over his death either.

I would also again add that no one on the left is saying that this is how people like Kirk should be dealt it.  So I don't personally see why so many are clutching their pearls over something the overwhelming majority of people on the left aren't saying.  Certainly no one of prominence.

Whereas everyone of prominence on the right is calling for violence to settle disputes.

If there’s someone out there actively hurting, murdering, or seriously impacting other people’s lives with their behavior I’m not always gonna be against getting rid of people like that, but if we’re claiming that what Charlie Kirk was doing falls in that category I guess I can’t see how anyone has come to that conclusion, unless your stance is that “well his opinions hurt my feelings” in which case I’d argue that you need to grow thicker skin.

I personally come to the conclusion that Kirk harmed people because he has amplified violent transphobia and helped get extremists elected who helped pass really regressive and restrictive anti-abortion policies that have a literal bodycount.  You can't grow thicker skin when you bleed out to death in a hospital parking lot in Texas because something went wrong with your pregnancy and doctors refuse to do the one thing that can save your life or save your uterus in the case of a few survivors.

I’m just saying it’s crazy he was assassinated for the reasons he was assassinated for, and actively celebrating it because you feel he’s a shit person is just weird behavior that also puts you in that shit person category.

Saying he was a bad person who harmed people and popping the champagne are two different things though, and you're not going to be able to conceivably claim that the overwhelming majority of leftists are doing the latter.  Even leftists I can't stand like Hasan Piker have been saying from the getgo "this is horrible."

See, I look at this, and I see people saying "murder is not okay, even if Kirk was horrible, but Kirk was horrible, so he shouldn't be dead, but that doesn't make him not a horrible person."  And I ask, "where's the lie and where is the moral reprehension?"  The vast majority of leftists are all saying the same thing:

"Political violence, regardless of the reason, is always wrong, but that doesn't whitewash all the horrible things that Charlie Kirk did in his adult life or change the fact that he was a horrible person who made life in this country objectively worse for the most marginalized among us.  Doesn't mean he should be killed for it, but his death doesn't undo the damage he did."

I'm asking what part of that, which by all accounts, does appear to be the genuine consensus, is so morally dubious?  No one's saying, "I'm glad he's dead," but is that not enough?  Should we pretend to mourn a bad person?

Two things can be true:

You can condemn political violence but let someone being a victim of political violence absolve them of their sins, or the fact that the victim in question played a pretty big role in spurring so many violent people into acting on their worst tendencies.

[Webbie2689]

Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong directions, but I am in fact seeing plenty of people saying they’re glad he’s dead. Aragorn just said he’d piss on his grave lol. It’s not just that people feel no sympathy; some people are happy about it, and that’s where it gets weird for me.

Not feeling any sympathy I understand to some degree. Maybe I haven’t made myself clear enough, but it’s really just the people who seem to think the whole thing is worth laughing at that I find a little gross, and you’re making it seem like that’s not a lot of people but I’m seeing it everywhere. Could just be because that’s where my focus is because I find it disturbing.

Idk. Lot of shootings all the time now, and I’ve reached a point in life where I’ve got kids and a family to worry about, which is still a fairly new thing to me. I never used to really think or care much about the world I was in. Now that I do I find myself worrying about them and how other people behave around them. I want my whole family carrying a gun and knowing how to use it, but I don’t want them using it for no good reason either. Just want them protected, and shit is the Wild West out there these days.

[st3ve]

I'm no fan of his, but he didn't deserve to be killed, brutally in front of his own children no less. As gross as some of his views may be, the best way to counter them is through discussion, not murder. All that shooting did was radicalise more people, and put them on the path to violence. We REALLY don't need that now.

[Aragorn]

Political violence being always horrible patently ignores history. Charlie Kirk was nothing but a reprehensible grifter so in the grand scheme of things he is insignificant; but when the state has an absolute monopoly on violence, and when people that fall in Kirk’s camp are perfectly happy to utilize that violence - laying over because of some ideal utopia where we all happily sit around tables and discuss our problems away is ignoring reality.

I squarely identify on the left but believe in gun ownership for this reason. The American left’s problem isn’t that they’re too extreme, it’s actually the opposite - completely toothless when your opposition has shown time and time again that it is perfectly happy to break your spine and laugh while they’re at it too.

Non violence only works when your opponent has a conscience. The fascist right has none.

As for Kirk himself and his family - he was perfectly happy to incite his audience on the disenfranchised, and was an ardent supporter of an ongoing genocide. They too had & have families, and they deserve far more attention and sympathy than a total waste of oxygen. So yes, I still would piss on his grave. Karma’s a bitch.

[Departed]

Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong directions, but I am in fact seeing plenty of people saying they’re glad he’s dead. Aragorn just said he’d piss on his grave lol. It’s not just that people feel no sympathy; some people are happy about it, and that’s where it gets weird for me.

Not feeling any sympathy I understand to some degree. Maybe I haven’t made myself clear enough, but it’s really just the people who seem to think the whole thing is worth laughing at that I find a little gross

While I'm not actively celebrating, I also completely get why some people are and don't condemn them for it whatsoever.  Farron Cousins said it perfectly this morning (starting at 3:10 specifically):



And that is absolutely the truth.  Those who keep saying "Kirk just had controversial opinions" are simply wrong.  He very directly put targets on the backs of the most marginalized among us.  

So, while I don't share the sentiment, I only don't share it because no material good comes of using political violence against evil men like Charlie Kirk.  It's not like Turning Point USA is gonna suddenly stop spreading their hatred and getting more extremists reelected, or that the right won't have more propagandists to spread Kirk's evil message.

But for those cheering because there's one less evil person in the world putting targets on people's backs?  I completely get it.

you’re making it seem like that’s not a lot of people but I’m seeing it everywhere. Could just be because that’s where my focus is because I find it disturbing.

You're not seeing it among democratic lawmakers or the most popular left wing voices the way you're seeing the countless calls for violence from right wing lawmakers and the most influential right wing voices in the country, like Musk, Mace or Waters.  You're seeing it from some random Joe Schmo Left-o's on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Youtube.  Their clips may go viral but theirs isn't the consensus from those with the most influence.  And frankly, if it were, I would struggle to be all that bothered that someone who made millions by spreading hate got that hate paid back to him by a 22 year old groyper of all people.

Idk. Lot of shootings all the time now, and I’ve reached a point in life where I’ve got kids and a family to worry about, which is still a fairly new thing to me. I never used to really think or care much about the world I was in. Now that I do I find myself worrying about them and how other people behave around them.  I want my whole family carrying a gun and knowing how to use it, but I don’t want them using it for no good reason either. Just want them protected, and shit is the Wild West out there these days.

Mass shootings are increasing like wildfire here and that is a very real and valid concern.  But you're looking at two completely unrelated facets.  "The left is mocking Kirk's death" and "mass shootings are increasing and that is alarming."

The left is decidedly not why mass shootings are increasing.  That is the fault of the right.  100% their fault, and people like Kirk are to blame for instilling that anxiety in you as well.  We're both old enough to remember that mass shootings didn't become a regular occurrence until after 2004, when George W. Bush's supreme court ended the assault weapons ban.  After that moment, shootings skyrocketed, and people like Kirk pretended that it's only because of gang violence.  Well, look at all the mass shootings of late, and how many are carried out by deranged right wingers who were radicalized by people like Charlie Kirk telling them that these various communities are the enemy of the people.

Charlie Kirk used his massive microphone to help elect and reelect the worst human beings into positions of power who wanna spill more guns into the general public.  Kirk said "if some people get shot up, it's worth it" because in his disgusting worldview, guns matter more than people.  To the man you're saying "it's weird people celebrate his death," he would've said gun rights matter more than the safety of your children.

If your concern in all of this is that shootings are happening with more regularity, then my advice is to direct that frustration at the people who make that the reality we all live with.  I don't know which state you live in, but look at where your local reps stand on gun violence, look at the records and see what the rate of shootings in your area are.  Demand more stringent gun control so the most insane people in this decrepit nation don't have the means to keep doing what they've been doing ever since republicans ended the AR ban.  Demand that the right wingers stop stoking this sick gun culture where every right winger has an AR-15 sticker on their truck with the none too subtle threat of "Try and take 'em" proudly on display.

People making jokes or celebrating the death of a bad person who helped perpetuate the regularity of mass shootings is not the problem and not the thing to focus on if your concern is the increase of shootings.  It's the guns and the people who wanna make sure the guns can't be regulated or kept from dangerous people.