Speculation: English Localization Issues?

[DeadSoldier]

Back in 2016 or 2017, I remember reading a thread from the now defunct The Snake Soup Forums by DarthCaligula about how the script and voice direction for the Japanese version of Metal Gear Solid 2 is much different from what the Anglosphere got, and was sort of shocked (but also not really) by how much context was changed. I did remember that in the Japanese version of MGS3, EVA whispers "Fukka you" to Volgin in English, while western releases had her say "Go to hell" instead (and strangely, even the English version of MGSΔ carried over the "dubtiles" even with the audio set to Japanese despite referring the Ape Escape characters to their Japanese names on the same settings).

Note that only the first 16 pages (and page 21) out of 23 of the thread itself were archived.

From the MGS2: Lost in Translation Hyper Edition thread by DarthCaligula:

Note: Everything here for Parts 1 and 2 were written after I beat the game. I originally talked about these parts in my original topic which disappeared. I'm not going to edit the later posts, so you might notice that I mention things in these first two parts that in the later posts I wasn't sure about, like the Japanese name for the Patriots. If you read that first topic before, I'm going to be treading some of the same ground, but I've also got a better understanding of the game now that I've played through it all.
Last year I went to Japan and while there I found a Japanese copy of the original release of Metal Gear Solid 2. The hostel I stayed at for a while had a PS2 and the owner let me use it. I managed to play the game up to the part when Raiden meets Ames. While some things are quite well known about the differences between the Japanese and English version of the game, like the fact that Solid and Solidus Snake were both voiced by the same man, Akio Otsuka, I was amazed at all the things I found that I had never heard about. I have a friend who has a modified PS2 that can play Japanese and I think Korean games, and he said he'd let me borrow it, but after waiting a year I decided to give up and bought a copy of the Japanese Metal Gear Solid Legacy Collection, since the Japanese version of Akiba's Trip 2 worked on my PS3, and after doing research I found out that there are apparently only two or three Japanese games that won't play on it.
As for my credentials, I took three years of Japanese classes in high school as well as two terms of Japanese classes in college. More personally, I've done a very rough translation of the Japanese light novel (equal to young adult) Boogiepop Overdrive, which was about 320 pages, and overall understood the story. I am currently two thirds of the way through Boogiepop in the Mirror and doing a much better job understanding it. I have also played through the Japanese version of Akiba's Trip 2 three times and overall got the idea of what the story was.
Before I get into the game itself, there are a few things I think I should note about the Japanese language, and how it factors into the subtleties in MGS2, since these can be hard to translate fully. Language is really just our attempt to use sounds and writing to express our ideas and concepts, and this is really important to understand when translating. There isn't always a direct translation between one concept and another, and this is especially true with kanji. For example, while you can say the Japanese word "kazu"( 和) means "peace" in English, this isn't exactly true. "Kazu" more specifically is "peace" in the idea of "harmony", while there are other words that can mean peace in other senses, like "on" or "odayaka" (穏やか) which can also mean "peaceful", but more like "calm" or "gentle", and even going from that, it's a different kind of "calm" than "nagi" (凪). Not only that, but the kanji for "kazu" that I showed can in other circumstances be said as "wa" with still the same meaning. So when translating something from another language, you can't just translate one word as another, it really depends on context and in the end the translator has to decide just how this is going to be done.
Japanese people use kanji for their names as well, with kanji for the sound of their name chosen for a meaning. From what I've found for example, the name "Touka" can be written in several different ways in kanji, so the parents would decide on what kanji to use. So when a character in a book for example is first introduced, they'll have the kanji for their name, and next to it, in smaller hiragana, called furigana, is how you say the name. Using my Boogiepop books as an example, the first time Miyashita Touka is introduced, she has the furigana next to her name, and from then on it's just the kanji.
But this is also used in other ways. Again, since I did a rough translation of the book Boogiepop Overdrive, it's easiest for me to use that as an example. In the book, there's an important building called the Moon Temple, with the name in English. When it's first introduced, it shows kanji with smaller katakana appearing next to it similar to furigana, but I don't know what the word for this would be exactly. The kanji itself uses Japanese to get the same idea across, of a Moon Temple, so the Japanese reader will know what it means, while for the rest of the book, it's just referred to as the Moon Temple (or "Muun Tenpuru" to be exact), and this sort of thing also comes up in MGS2 I noticed. I'll be mentioning it in my posts on the game, but I found that they use this same idea for other things as well, with the character saying something in English, with the kanji for the idea appearing and the words in English appearing above. This is why some subtleties can get lost, and this can be a very hard thing to translate, so I really don't blame the translator for maybe missing some of this.
OK, hopefully I didn't bore you all to death with that. Now on to the game itself.
By the way, when I quote lines from the English version of the game, I'm going off of memory, so the quotes might not be exact.
I'm going to do my best not to push any sort of theory about the game's story while doing this, and instead just do my best to mention the things we missed out on and do my best to translate it. This is also going to contain my thoughts at the time while I was playing, so I will mention the VR Theory for example, though I'll do my best to make it clear when I'm discussing something like that, and not to let it interfere with the translation itself.

Part 1: The Tanker Chapter

First I'll start with the box for the game itself. The cover art prominently features Raiden and the back of the box actually shows Solidus with his eyepatch, as well as Raiden from the game itself, shown plainly. The manual doesn't really have anything worth nothing though.
In the opening title sequence it of course shows the names of the Japanese voice actors, and also has the names dispalyed in Roman lettering, going with the molecule theme that it has. I was also surprised that the names were listed in Western order rathar than Eastern. For example, instead of saying "Otsuka Akio", with the family name first, which is very common in Eastern cultures, it says "Akio Otsuka". Titles for positions are also in English, for example "Military Advisor" for Motosada Mori.
The menu for the game itself is in English, with explanations appearing in Japanese at the bottom sometimes for what's highlighted. And this is also where I noticed the first difference that I had never heard about. When you start a new game, a woman's voice starts talking to you. I didn't catch what she said exactly, but she seemed to be describing stealth gameplay. After that, you're given a list of sentences as options, and depending on which one you choose, it gives you a list of difficulties to start with. This is of course quite similar to what happens in the beginning of MGS3. I chose an option that let me play the game on Normal. This entire part, with the woman's voice and the list is absent from the Legacy version.
When the game itself begins, the names of the cast and crew are displayed like in the English version, but this time it's all in Japanese, with the names in kanji. English names like Harry Gregson-Williams are displayed in katakana.
I'm going to talk about the differences in the English and Japanese voice acting as the characters appear. First I just want to make it clear that I think the majority of the voice actors did a good job, but I think the Japanese voice actors did better overall. The way they say things, it just feels more legitimate, like they're actually there in the situation. So unless I make a point of complaining about them, I generally think that they did a good job.
So first I'll talk about Solid Snake. David Hayter sort of has a jokey way of talking, like Snake is thinking "Here we go again" with the crazy situations he finds himself in. Otsuka sounds much more serious. He really sounds like someone there, dealing with the situation he's in.
I've also always like Christopher Randolph's portrayal of Otacon, and don't really have much to say about him, only that Hideyuki Tanaka has a much deeper voice. It's pretty surprising the first time you hear his voice in Japanese, after hearing the English version for so long. Really though, I think that both voice actors did great and don't have much to say about them.
Not really much to say after this point until Olga shows up. The models in the posters are all the same, by the way.
And here with Olga we see the first major botch in the English version. First though, I'd like to say that I think Vanessa Marshall did a great job as Olga. She really put a lot of energy into the character, and I think that she is actually one of the best voice actors in the game. Olga has always stuck with me over the years, and I think a big part of that is due to her performance. However, she should not have voiced Olga. Something we totally missed out on, that was in the Japanese version and an important part of Olga is the fact that Olga looks the same as Meryl, and even has the exact same voice as Meryl. And this explains a lot of what's going on when she first shows up.
If you watch the scene, you'll notice that her face is obscured at first, with her wearing a hat and holding a radio up to her face. You'll also notice that Snake is constantly trying to get a look at her face, always moving around, trying to see if this is Meryl working with the enemy.
Kyoko Terase does a great job as Olga, and sounds much more intense than the English voice. Since I don't have a problem with Marshall's performance, I don't really have as much to say about Olga, except that her Japanese voice does sound more intimidating.

"I'm a nomad too."
I've always liked this line. What Snake says in Japanese here is more like "I also have no country" which I think reveals something about him. Snake doesn't seem to think of himself as belonging to any one country, but likely sees himself as a citizen of the world.

"You know what you're doing."
In Japanese Olga calls him a "pro", using the English word. I just found that interesting.
There isn't really much more to talk about here until we get to the end of the chapter. I don't really have much to say about Gurlukovich or Dolph.
I've always loved Patric Zimmerman's portrayal of Ocelot, and Koji Totani does a great job as well. Not really much to say here.

"Like I said, I'm taking it back."
This line is a bit different in Japanese. Ocelot instead says it more like "I'm taking it back, isn't that what I said?" What I mean is that in English he says it as a statement, while in Japanese he says it as a question. not a big deal, but I found it pretty interesting.
When Ocelot mentions the Patriots, he uses Japanese words instead. I get more into this in more detail later on in part 4.
I've always loved how Cam Clarke played Liquid Snake. He really sounds like he's enjoying himself while at the same time seething with rage with his position in life. He's brought so much enthusiasm to the role of Liquid, and I really don't have any complaints at all about him. Banjo Ginya does the voice a bit differently. I can still hear him mocking Snake at similar points, but I was surprised with just how intimidating he sounds, he really sounds awesome.
There's not really much else to say for the Tanker Chapter from this point on though.

Part 2: Plant opening to Peter Stillman

First I think I should talk about Raiden, and boy do I have a lot to say. I can't make this clear enough, but Raiden in Japanese sounds nothing at all like his English voice. After being a Quinton Flynn defender for years, I stopped after I read what Mr. Wolfe pointed out about how Flynn consistently emphasizes the wrong words throughout the game, and playing in Japanese, he's totally right. Quinton Flynn played the character as a whiny kid for some reason. I don't know what the hell happened, but the Japanese voice sounds NOTHING like Flynn. Kenyu Horiuchi plays Raiden with a deep, sexy voice. Rather than sounding like some punk kid, Raiden sounds much more serious, and I also get the impression that at first he's trying hard to be badass, like his hero Solid Snake.
Pretty much everyone who played this game hated Raiden, and I blame both Flynn and whoever the hell was directing the voice acting for this game. Flynn isn't necessarily bad, there are points in the game that I thought he did well with, so I have to blame the voice acting directing just as much for the screw ups in this game. I'm sure that someone like Amy Hennig could have gotten a good performance out of Flynn, but instead we're left with a subpar performance for the main character of the game. I completely blame them for Raiden's path after this game, and the fact that he eventually became an electrolyte powered murderbot.
Horiuchi is the one and true voice for Raiden for me now. He does a great job, really making Raiden sound like someone in this situation, and it's a tragedy that we didn't get the same experience as the Japanese. Looking back, I really wish that Robin Atkin Downes had played Raiden instead, since I was very pleased with his later work as Miller, and amazed to hear him pull off an American English accent (if you didn't know, Robin is British. I've known about him for about as long as I've known about Metal Gear). I'm sure that even back then he could have pulled off the accent, and I wish so much that he could have played Raiden. We would have had a totally different view of Raiden if we had been given a better voice actor.
I don't really have much to say about Campbell. Both voices have a strong, authoritative voice, but Takeshi Aono does have a higher voice than Paul Eiding.

"There's a lot of pressure on my torso!"
Flynn says this like there's a problem. Like he's panicking or something. Horiuchi says this line more like he's remarking on it, wondering why. He says it calmly I mean.
Since I'm playing the Legacy version, which is the HD version, the door you open to continue on says "MetalGear2GunOfPatriots". I have no idea why the hell this is here. Who the hell added this to the texture? Why does it even mention Guns of the Patriots? What moron is responsible for this?
Also speaking of the HD version, something I forgot to mention is that when the helicopters are flying towards the Big Shell at the beginning, for some idiotic reason you can see a light from beneath the ocean surface shine THROUGH the Big Shell no matter what's in the way.
When I played the original version of this game in Japan on the PS2, the dog tag part was exactly the same as in our version, even with English displayed everywhere, with Name, Birthday, Blood Type, and Nationality. In the HD version though, all we're given is Codename, Birthday, and Nationality, and we can only enter the month and day for the birthday. As far as I'm concerned, this totally screws up the ending part when Raiden looks at his dog tags. Raiden is supposed to represent the player, and this information is an important part for the end, when Raiden rejects us, we being yet another identity forced on him. As a joke, I put in "Kenyu" for my name, chose some random date, and left the nationality as the default of Japan.
I've never had a problem with Lara Cody's portrayal of Rosemary, though there are some lines that could have been done better. However, as usual, the Japanese voice is better. It's hard to describe, but Kikuko Inoue just sounds better, more legitimate. I also think that she sounds much sexier, but that might just be a preference.
When characters mention "SEAL" we see the name in Roman lettering appear above kanji, but we hear the word in English, so the kanji is a translation.
Vamp doesn't appear enough yet for me to talk about the differences in voice acting, so I'm going to wait until later to fairly compare them.
By the way, until the time when Pliskin is revealed to be Solid Snake, I'm going to refer to him as Pliskin.

"What are you waiting for? Shoot!"
In Japanese we can clearly hear that Pliskin is in pain. I feel that this is important. Pliskin is in pain, unable to fight back, and has to rely on this guy he just met to save his life. I don't think that the idea gets across in English, so sorry Hayter fans, but he screwed this line up.
I didn't catch this the first time I played, but like in English, we can hear Pliskin start to call himself "Snake", then catch himself and say Pliskin. You can just barely hear the "s" sound.

"That's great. A VR grunt of the Digital Age."
Hayter sounds upset and sarcastic when he says this. Otsuka sounds disappointed.

"Snake is dead..."
"And buried."
This is a bit different in Japanese. Instead, Pliskin says some thing more like "That's right."
When Fortune shows up, the Seals don't call her Fortune, but say Japanese words and in the subtitles, "Fortune" appears in katakana above them.
I've never had problem with Maura Gale's voice acting as Fortune overall. I think that she did a good job with every part except for one scene later (when Vamp is shot) that I'll get to later. Yumi Toma however is better. Something I was surprised about is that in Japanese Fortune really sounds like she enjoys killing people. When she's blowing up all the Seals, she sounds really happy, since this is probably the only real joy she has in life anymore.
I don't really have much to say about Mr. "My name is Peter Stillman that is not my real name" (sorry, couldn't resist. City of Glass reference). Both voice actors do a good job.
Again, Raiden just sounds so much more serious rather than like a whiny kid at this part. I mean, I know I'm going to mention this a lot, but this really deserves to be pointed out.
When Raiden gets called by Campbell, Pliskin sounds like he's mocking him for having to take the call.
Pliskin says the "Who dares, wins" line in Japanese. I mean that it's a Japanese translation of the line, while "Semper Fi" is said normal in Latin, with the words appearing in katakana above the equivalent kanji in the subtitles. Also, Marines in the game seem to almost always be referred to as "jarhead".
There's not really much else to say from here on. I stopped here because I was getting tired from listening to and reading all of the Japanese.



Part 3: Mr. X to Ames

Now finally to Mr. X. I remember reading in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 that Mr. X was planned to speak in the voices of other characters, with I think the original idea being that you wouldn't know who it was, and I thought, man, that would have been so cool if that was actually in the game. Well you know what? It is. Mr. X in speaks in the voices of other characters. This is such a huge botch that I can't believe, that this was left out of the English version. Who the hell missed this? It's so obviously in the game, completely unavoidable. I just want to strangle whatever idiot somehow missed this important part of Mr. X and decided instead to just have him (well, yeah, "her" actually) speak in a single voice. I remember when I was sitting at the hostel, playing this game on the owner's old PS2, and I just felt like we were robbed of the experience we were meant to have. The Japanese saw this game for what it was meant to be, but we foreigners were not allowed to.
When you go up the F-E connecting bridge, Mr. X calls you and tells you about the mines, as you'll recall. So the thing is, first he (hell, I'm just going to say "he" until we get to point when his real identity is revealed) speaks to you in his normal voice, then we hear a sound like a frequency being changed, and a different voice (I'm assuming Kaneto Shinozawa, the voice of Gray Fox in Metal Gear Solid) says a line about stealth equipped claymore mines, which I assume is taken from the audio tracks of Metal Gear Solid. We hear the sound again, and Mr. X starts talking in his normal voice again. What's interesting is that Mr. X says to call him Deep Throat, but after Raiden asks about Shadow Moses, we hear the sound again, and in that other voice, he says to call him Mr. X. I played thorugh this part twice just to make sure I was getting it right was voice said what, so this seems to indicate that Shinozawa returned to say at least that new line.
I called Pliskin a few times, trying to hear him talk about the equipment I was using, but he was going through the normal stuff about Dead Cell and the bombs instead, but something interesting I found is that when he was talking about Fatman, he says "a fat man" in English, displayed like that, not in katakana.
Now next up is what I have to say is probably the biggest, worst, most offensive screw up in the entire game, or at least, the beginning of it. Solidus Snake. When Raiden starts walking toward the stairs go up to the top of Strut E, we hear again, the voice of Meryl/Olga, and talking back to her a voice that sounds exactly like Solid Snake. This part was supposed to be jarring. We were supposed to suddenly hear what sounded like Meryl and Solid Snake talking to each other, or with our knowledge that Olga sounds like Meryl (and the fact that we see her pretty quickly), that Olga, the enemy, is talking with Solid Snake, or maybe this weird, suspicious Pliskin guy who also looks and sounds just like Solid Snake.
I have to make this clear, Solidus sounds EXACTLY like Solid Snake. Raiden even calls up Pliskin and talks to him directly afterwards, and we hear the same voice that we just heard, but now talking to us as an ally. It would have a plot point that makes us untrusting of Pliskin, suspecting that he was secretly working against us. Hell, his whole story is full of holes, as Peter Stillman and Raiden point out, so this part, hearing his voice conspiring with the enemy, would have had a huge impact on us, though it seems that Raiden doesn't make the connection.
Not much to report on after this until we get to the fight with Fortune, and first, I just have to mention that I saw that dumb bug in the game where Fortune walks out and we hear the bugs around her on the floor, but don't see them. Great job HD edition team. Overall, I think that Maura Gale did a fine job as Fortune, except for this part.

"Later, Vamp?"
Maura Gale reads this like they're two separate lines or something. In Japanese, she says it the way it's supposed to be. As in "Catch you later, Vamp?" All one saying. She's saying "Bye, see you later." That sort of idea. Then the next part. As Mr. Wolfe pointed out, it sounds like Fortune is laughing after Vamp gets shot in English. Hell, I wasn't sure if she was supposed to be crying, or crying and laughing. Yumi Toma does an excellent job emoting this. She truley sounds like a woman who has lost the last person that cares about her, like her life is nothing but endless misery, and that she's lost everything worth living for. Her crying in pain sounds so real, and her relief when Vamp comes back to life sounds absolutely genuine as well. I'm guessing Maura was having a bad day when she was recording this part, but really, I again have to blame whoever the hell was directing the voice acting as well.
Not much to say about Fatman. I thought the English voice was well done, and the Japanese voice sounds great as well. But next up is Mr. X again. Like in the English version, he sounds like he's mocking Raiden the whole time. And again, we hear him speak in another voice when he mentions the PAN. I'm guessing that this is an audio clip of Donald Anderson/Decoy Octopus from Metal Gear Solid. Hearing these voices also makes it clear that Olga is going by a script prepared for her by the Patriots. She has these lines prepared, and she has to use them as part of her role.
Before I get to Ames, I wanted to mention Emma's bird. The bird speaks in a very cutesy voice. I seem to remember someone here mentioning that Emma was supposed to sound really cute, so this is kind of a preview of that I suppose.
The next major thing is Ames. Again, I thought the English voice was fine, and the Japanese one is good too. But then we get to the next part, when Solidus shows up, and again, we hear what sounds exactly like Solid Snake talking to Ocelot and Olga. With the window and his outfit obscuring him, we don't get a good look, but we can see that he has white hair. So of course, we get this bizzare sounding conversation with the voices of Ocelot, Meryl, and Solid Snake all talkign to each other as allies. Another thing I found interesting is that when Olga and Ocelot start yelling at each other and pulling guns out, in English Solidus yells at them, while in Japanese, he says his lines more like he's mocking them and what losers they are that no one else in the world will take them in.
I can't remember if I talked about John Cygan yet or not, so I might as well now. Like Vanessa Marshall, he absolutely should not have been cast in his role, but I in no way mean that as an insult. I thought he did an absolutely wonderful job playing Solidus, and is probably part of why that character has stuck with me for so long. He really did do great, putting a lot of emotion and effort into Solidus, which is why I feel a little bad saying that he never should have been cast as Solidus. Obviously, David Hayter should have been the voice of Solidus Snake, it would have been a wonderful opportunity for him, playing both the hero and the villian in the same game, as two separate characters.
I stopped playing after escaping from the Shell 1 Core, because I again was getting mentally fatigued listening to and reading all this Japanese. By the way, I am now at the point that I got to before while I was in Japan, so all of this is going to be new to me. I'm really looking forward to the Harrier fight, hearing the same voice talking to me to offer help, and yelling death threats at me.
Also, I just thought that maybe I should mention this since maybe not everyone is aware, but this is about Raiden's character design. Raiden from what I can tell is supposed to be going along the Japanese idea of a "beautiful male". I'm no expert on this, but you can see this in Japanese culture, of feminine looking males that are considered beautiful. Unfortunately, this didn't totally get into the game I feel looking at his character model. If you compare it to the artwork, you see that he doesn't have the long flowing hair that he's supposed to. Also, from what I understand, his white hair was supposed to be there so that it would be easier to identify with him, because no matter what hair color you have, you'd be able to project yourself onto him with the fact that he has no hair color. I'm also pretty sure that his more feminine build was supposed to appeal to women, and also I guess so it would be easier for them to identify with him as well.
So while in English they seemed to think "girly boy" or something for casting his voice, in Japanese he's got a deep, sexy voice because he's beautiful.

Part 4: Leaving Shell 1 to going after Emma

I got to play some more, so here we go again.
First, there's just a more general thing I wanted to mention about the Japanese voice acting, which is how they are quicker. These Codec parts are going by much faster than I remembered before.
Anyway, after escaping the Shell 1 Core, I get my sniper rifle and go to the connecting bridge for Shells 1 and 2, finally getting to a part I've been looking forward to for so long. It is so cool hearing the same voice come from Solidus and Solid. While before Otsuka seemed to be playing Solidus to sound just like Solid Snake, now Solidus seems a bit different, more energetic I think, enjoying himself and being able to confront Snake maybe. The Harrier fight is just awesome hearing Solidus and Snake both speaking with the same voice.

"Stop impersonating him!"
Not a translation note, but if you were wondering just what Snake meant by this, The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 explains it in the script. Snake is yelling at Solidus to stop trying to look like Big Boss, who it seems Solidus idolizes.

"They got my eye!"
In English, Solidus seems shocked and mad, but in Japanese, he's happy. Those of you who own The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 and read the script might remember it mentioning how he's happy about losing his eye. It's kind of hard to explain how he delivers it. It's like he's just realized what this means and he's really satisfied. He's happy because he's missing an eye just like Big Boss.
I haven't heard much of Vamp so far, but I think that I prefer his English voice actually, not that his Japanese voice is bad. It is pretty weird hearing his high pitched yell when he jumps out of the Harrier and when he jumps off the water to run up the Big Shell.
Man, it is so much better not hearing Flynn's whiny voice at this part. Horiuchi is just so much better. This is the one and only voice for Raiden as far as I'm concerned. Sorry Quinton Flynn as Raiden defenders, I'm going to have to smack you now if you ever say such idiocy again.
The next big thing would be when Raiden meets with President Johnson. So this is the first time we get to hear someone actually talking about the Patriots, and it's pretty interesting. Johnson is not saying "Patriot", and now I'm beginning to wonder if it is their name in Japanese. Johnson seems to be using the same term that Ocelot used in the Tanker Chapter, which now that I've seen over and over again, I've been able to get a good look at the kanji. Thankfully, it's made of up three out of four kanji I recognize on sight. The name they're saying pretty much translates to "Those who love their country".
The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 explains that some people, probably important people that the Patriots have their eyes on, get some sort of implant or something, I'm not totally sure, but some sort of interference that prevents them from naming the Patriots, and so that instead they say a nonsense term "La li lu le lo", which from what I understand has to do with the Japanese music scale. Like I said, I'm not going to factor in any of the games that came after while exploring this game in Japanese, but remember in MGS4 how Drebin says "I ain't no 'La li lu...' That is, I ain't no Patriot." This is part of it, showing how Drebin seems to be allowed to state their name.
So assuming that the Patriots in Japanese use the word "Patriot" in English for their name, it could be that Ocelot and Johnson are using a different term, "Those who love their county" to get around this block. Otherwise, it would seem that "The Patriots" was a translation. I'll wait to see on this one.
Also, more of a side thing, but I loved it when I learned that Johnson in English was voiced by Paul Lukather, since I'm a Legacy of Kain fan. He did the voice of Vorador in the Legacy of Kain games, and died about a year ago.
I almost feel like I'm forgetting to mention something I noticed, but if I remember more, I'll just post follow ups like I've been doing anyway. So next time I'll finally be able to hear Emma.

Part 5: Emma
So now I get to really hear Vamp talk. In all truth, he just doesn't really stand out to me in Japanese. I actually prefer the English version of Vamp. So sorry, Ryotaro Okiayu, but I think Phil LaMarr did better. Nothing much to say about this part, except that every character so far is referring to the Patriots as "Those who love their country", so I'll have to wait until Ocelot and JFK talk I guess to see if they say "Patriot" or if this truly is their name in Japanese.
I see the same "MetalGear2GunsofPatriots" thing on a few doors while swimming around, so they reused that texture. It's still totally stupid and annoying.
And next is Emma, and boy do I have a lot to say about her. I feel I have to be somewhat harsh on Jennifer Hale. She isn't a bad voice actor, but we got a completely different version of her than how she's supposed to act. Emma in Japanese sounds more innocent and sad I would say. She isn't nearly as assertive sounding as she is in English, instead I get the feeling that this is a very sad woman who has carried this sadness for years. Something worth mentioning is that he never calls her brother "Hal" like in English. Instead, she says "onii-chan" and I think I should explain this a bit. From my understanding, the Japanese word for brother (I think technically only an older brother) is "onii-san". Now the thing is that "onii-san" is more formal, while "onii-chan" is more affectionate. By having her call him "onii-chan" I think it shows that she cares about him, but in truth I can't say for certain.
Another thing that I didn't realize until I read it in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 is that Raiden and Emma are actually supposed to be flirting through all of this, and it shows much better in Japanese. Again, Horiuchi does a much better job than Flynn. I really think Flynn and Hale messed this up, because we were supposed to tell from the way they talk to each other that they're flirting. Raiden also shows much more kindness to her in the Japanese audio I feel.
Again, I have to mention this, that Emma is more assertive in English. When talking about GW or Y2K, she isn't talking like she's in charge like in the English version, but instead she just sounds like she knows all this stuff, but more like she really was just used by the Patriots for her intelligence. It's hard to describe, but she just sounds much sadder and more innocent in Japanese.

"We've managed to avoid drowning!"
People like to make fun of this line, mostly because of how Flynn delivers it. In Japanese, it seems more like he's just letting Campbell know that they made it through, and I think that he's also proud of himself for protecting Emma. Again, because he's flirting with Emma, I get the feeling that he's also just feeling happier having her around. His happiness with being with Emma might also be due to the fact that he's been so devoid of much human contact that wasn't trying to kill him for so long, especially with a woman, so he's bonding with Emma.
Something that was unfortunately completely lost in the English voice acting has to do with Emma and Hal's relationship. In English, she seems to almost always sound like she's angry and picking a fight, but in Japanese, it's the complete opposite. Emma always starts off calm and sad, and I get the feeling that she desperately wants to talk to Hal, but Hal keeps pushing her, accusing her of helping to make things that will kill people and such. I kept calling Snake to hear all of these conversations because I was really interested in how Emma was supposed to be, and it's the same each time. Emma starts calm and Hal pushes her until Emma gets mad and starts arguing back, and when she finally reaches the point that she's really upset and yelling at him, Snake comes in and cuts them off.
I dragged Emma into the bugs to see her reaction, and she sounded really scared of them, more than in English I think. At least, I don't seem to remember her sounding as scared in English.
When Raiden is mad about not having the card to open the door and continue, and Emma gives it to him, instead of sounding upset like in English, it sounds more like he's upset, but still flirting with her how he says it, like "Now now, Emma. You should have told me you had this."
I thought Christopher Randolph did a fine job acting out the crying when Emma dies, but in truth, Hideyuki Tanaka does better. I mean, I thought Randolph did a good job and all, but Tanaka just still manages to sound more legitimate.
Also, a small note here, not really related to the translation. I'd have to double check, but I seem to remember reading in the script in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 that when Hal starts saying "Emma? Emma?!" when she dies, that this is actually supposed to be the last thing Emma hears, so she did get to hear him call her by name after all. If you look close, you can see her smiling right after he says her name.
Not really much else to say about all this. I still wonder if there's any significance to the fact that the model for Mr. X/Olga's reflection at this point is actually Raiden with no hair. You can't really see it at all in the game itself, but in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 you can see this if you move the camera around. Maybe they just didn't want to bother programming a reversed Mr. X model or something. At least, I think those reflection models are reversed..... I have no idea.
I stopped here because this next part with Arsenal Gear is so crazy and all, so I want to have a rested mind before I get into that.

Actually ,the more I think about it, the more upset I get about how Emma came about in English as well, and I'm not really sure who's to blame. Emma is supposed to be a sad woman, still lonely and having issues about the death of her step-father and her step-brother who abandoned her and who she loves (he's almost certainly the one guy with glasses that she mentions she liked). The difference in how Emma acts between the two is almost as big as the difference with Raiden. She just seems too forceful and angry in English. Because the Japanese voice acting is the original and closest to the intent of the creators, we have to use that as the model for how these characters should be, and Emma just is totally wrong in English I feel.
The thing is that I know that Jennifer Hale is a good voice actress, so I'm not sure if she's to blame, or if I should once again go after the one who did the directing of the voice actors. I mean, didn't these people listen to the Japanese voices at all to get a feel for the characters? Sure doesn't seem so. It seems like they just read the lines, looked at the art and I guess the scenes themselves, and then got their own ideas. I mean, Emma is just totally wrong in English. Jennifer Hale didn't necessarily do a bad job acting, it's just that the character comes across as totally different from how she's supposed to be. This is another case where I feel like we foreigners were cheated out of the experience we were meant to have.
God, that whole part with Emma just really brought me down. It's just so goddamned sad. Her whole miserable life, wishing she could meet with her brother again and when we finally does, just being yelled at by him and getting into arguments, only being able to have a nice conversation and say what she wanted as she's dying. And just remembering that sad voice of hers....
I really wish I could have a copy of this game with the Japanese audio and the English translation, that would be the best way to play it. As I think about playing this game again in English, all I can think is how I'll just get pissed every time I hear Raiden, when I get to Mr. X, when I hear Olga or Solidus, and when I hear Emma.

A small note also, when the bird is saying "Hal, I miss you." The line in Japanese is kind of hard to translate, so I understand why it was done the way is was, but in Japanese she says something like "Onii-chan, I want to meet again." She says "onii-chan" and then I recognize the kanji for "meet". It's kind of how Japanese grammar works. She just mentions meeting without other specific words, but you can get what the meaning is.

Part 6: Arsenal Gear to Federal Hall

I have to say, despite my complaints about Quinton Flynn, I thought he did a good job with the part when Raiden talks about his past as a child soldier. If only he put as much effort into the rest of the performance.

"He's a non-existent operative, from a non-existent organization."
In Japanese, he pretty much says the same, but something interesting is that in English, that is, Roman lettering, over the equivalent kanji, it says "No such agent" and "No such agency".
I can't remember how it is in English, but in Japanese Solidus actually says that the war Raiden fought in was in the 1980's. Does anyone remember if he mentioned that it was the 80's in the English version?
When GW starts screwing up and talking weird, there's still the sound of interference, but there's actually a part when his voice goes higher too, and there's more of this sort of thing in his crazy calls to Raiden. Like when he starts saying the names of what I believe are a bunch of train stops, he talks faster and faster, with his voice going higher and higher. The calls from the first Metal Gear are kind of interesting. The subtitles say "OUTER HEAVEN" and "BIG BOSS" in English like that, and the rest of what he says in Japanese is in katakana, seeming to suggest that he's straining the sound, which of course he is doing. "Metal Gear" is written in katakana though, not English.
When Rose calls Raiden and starts screwing up (which as far as I'm concerned, is the evidence that she's been an AI the whole time), it's pretty much the same, though I think the effect worked out a bit better in the Japanese version, with her voice getting deeper and deeper as she talks about her belly and Raiden's baby, and her voice getting more and more distorted. Like I said though, it's not that big of a difference.

"Believe in what?"
"That's your problem."
I believe that this is what Raiden and Snake say in English. In Japanese, Snake says something more like "That's for you to answer."
I have to say, the part when Raiden fights the Rays in what is a recreation of the part in the VR Missions game's voyeuristic section that lets you look at Naomi and Mei Ling is the strongest evidence for the VR Theory. When I looked at this area in The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2, and also really got to look at Arsenal Gear, I really noticed how the area Raiden fights the Rays in is impossibly big. There's no way this area could fit inside of or on top of Arsenal Gear. And the reason why this is really important is that every strut you go in on the Big Shell is actually around the same size, and an appropriate size to actually fit inside those struts. But like I said before, I'm not going to be pushing for or against the VR Theory with this, especially since I'm really on the fence for whether or not I believe it.

"Solid Snake Simulation" is said in English, with the English words appearing over kanji.
Solidus is mocking Raiden the whole time he's talking about Raiden's past, and when Olga appears, he's mocking her as well. What I mean is that he's really mocking them, more than how he sounds in English.
I love the part when Ocelot stabs everyone in the back. He's just he ultimate bastard, and I actually think I like how Patrick Zimmerman does it more than Koji Totani. Not that Totani does a bad job at all, but Zimmerman just sounds like such a dick through the whole thing, like he's really enjoying it. In Japanese, you get the same feeling, but I just like how Zimmerman did it more.
Also, they're still calling the Patriots "Those who love their county", so it's pretty clear that "Patriots" is a translation of that. I kept wondering if Ocelot would say the name in English, but that's not the case.
For those of you who don't know, there was originally planned a part where we'd see Arsenal Gear actually smash through Manhattan, but it was cut because of 9/11. In The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2, we actually get to look at a polygonal model of this, showing the city trashed, making it really sink in just how many people must have died from this.
Solidus at this point speaks with a lot of passion when talking about his ideals. It's clear that he really believes in stopping the Patriots. His voice even seems to start cracking with the emotion.
The Document of Metal Gear Solid 2 states that the "Campbell" AI that Raiden talks to at this point is called "JFK". GW is named after George ILACKORIGINALITYASAHUMANBEINGton, while JFK is of course named after John Fitzgerald Kennedy.
There's something pretty interesting about JFK and Rose here that was lost in English. Whenever it switches between them, we hear the other AI speaking before their face appears. What I mean is that, for example, it'll show JFK's Campbell skull face talking, and once he's done talking, we hear Rose start talking and about a second later the picture switches to Rose, and it goes back and forth like this throughout the whole thing. It makes me wonder if these are supposed to both be the same AI, switching which person it's talking as. I've never been sure if they are two separate AIs or if it was just one, JFK, switching between Campbell and Rose to screw with Raiden's head. I've also got my own theory about just what the Patriots are supposed to be within the context of MGS2, but that doesn't really belong here.
"Selection for Society Sanity" is said in English as well, above kanji that would be the equivalent idea in Japanese.

"You have to beLIEve me!"
Unfortunately, I missed this part. I've always wondered if there's some pun with "uso", which is the Japanese word for a lie or falsehood. Maybe I'll go through this part again and really pay attention later.
Solidus calls himself and Raiden monsters, and says "monster" in English, with "monster" in katakana appearing above kanji.

I stopped here because up next is the end of the game, and I really want to pay attention to this part.
I'm almost to the end now. I was really hoping that Ravi and Mr. Wolfe would have joined in with this and maybe asked some questions, but I guess not. After I beat this game I should finally finish GTA5, and I'll want to play Fallout 4, but Metal Gear Solid in Japanese is pretty tempting too. I'll probably play MGS3 in Japanese eventually as well, and I guess there's no reason not to play MGS4, even if it's not that good. I'm really curious if Screaming Mantis actually screams in the fight with her like Rose is talking about when you call her.

Part 7: Can't Say Goodbye to Yesterday

The fight with Solidus is the same of course, but I think that part of the idea was that we were supposed to be fighting someone who looks and sounds just like Solid Snake. I don't know if this was supposed to be some sort of symbolic killing of Snake and of the Metal Gear series or if it was just supposed to be something on our minds as we fought, killing a guy who sounds just like the hero we used to play as.
When JFK calls during the fight, talking about Rex and Ray, the Japanese fighter craft, his voice is high pitched, which it was not like during the part just before when he's explaining everything to Raiden. Rose sounds normal though.
Something that you might not be aware of is that before the changes resulting from 9/11 (which remember only happened about two months before this game was released) there was going to be a US flag actually on the flag pole of Federal Hall. We would have seen this during the fight, probably blowing in the wind, and it's even more important in the scenes with Solidus talking about his ideals and when he dies. Watch the death scene again and you'll notice that he camera keeps showing the flag pole, with lots of screen area dedicated to it, also, when Solidus falls, he looks up at the flag and reaches his hand out towards it. There's another thing at this part that's really easy to miss, and that I had no idea about for years, until I was messing around with the Casting Theater or whatever it's called on MGS2 Substance. Solidus says something as he looks up at the flag. It's hard to see because his face guard blocks his mouth, but if you use the Casting Theater you can put someone else, like Rose for example, in there and clearly see the mouth moving. Who knows what he's saying though.
When Solidus is dying next to the statue of George ILACKORIGINALITYASAHUMANBEINGton, he's still looking up at the flag, and when Raiden swipes his sword down, he was originally cutting the rope, causing the flag to fall on Solidus. I'm not sure if this means that Raiden is rejecting his country or maybe it's because Solidus is a former president and I'm pretty sure that the flag is put on the coffin of presidents. Maybe Raiden is showing some small respect to Solidus, or maybe he's doing it more ironically.
Before I continue, there's another little thing that I kept forgetting to notice before, but I noticed this time, and it's some more stuff about the Japanese language. There are different pronouns in Japanese, and what pronoun a person uses depends on sex, age, or just how they view themselves. Mostly I'm talking about Solid and Solidus Snake here though. Solid Snake says "ore", which from my understanding is a somewhat rude, or at least, not exactly polite word to use. It's not like swearing or anything, but I think it means that you're appearing kind of rough. It's very masculine. Solidus says "watashi", which is a very general one, and I think more commonly used by women (there's a much more effeminate version of this though, "atashi", which only women would use, and maybe some effeminate men), though it's really genderless. Raiden I think says "boku", which is masculine and used by younger men, like children, teens, and maybe like in Raiden's case, men in their 20's. I can't believe I didn't catch what Raiden says. Well, it's not like it's hard to check later, since he's the main character.
This part as well is also some pretty strong evidence for the VR Theory I have to say. People moving slow around Raiden, all blurry, and the biggest one for me is the fact that Solid Snake, who we last saw jump off of Arsenal Gear into the ocean has somehow in this little time swam to the coast of Manhattan and made his way to Federal Hall.

"Dog tags?"
Mr. Wolfe liked to tear Flynn apart about this line. It's kind of hard for me to say for sure, but Mr. Wolfe hears it more as "Dog tags...", instead of a question. I heard the line over and over in his video, and I'm not sure if Flynn is saying it as a statement or a question. Horiuchi absolutely says it as a question though.
Now I absolutely believe that Rose is supposed to be an AI all the way through the game up to this point, but now I'm starting to believe the VR Theory even more because of how Kikuno Inoue says Rose's lines, as opposed to Lara Cody's performance. I get the impression much more that she's continuing conversation topics that she and Raiden discussed, and even more, when she talks about the baby. Before I assumed that Rose had just gone to work in her usual work uniform and that she had no clue that Raiden had been sent to the Big Shell, and that after Arsenal Gear smashed into Manhattan, she came out to see, and found Raiden there, and from the way he acted, she figured that he must have found out the truth.
But now, I'm not so sure. I really get the impression that this is the same woman, but that doesn't make sense because the last time we see Rose act normal is when she calls him and tells him about how she's lied to him, and then her voice goes all weird, and even more important, her eyes go white, like they do at times when what is clearly an AI looking like Rose is talking to Raiden after Arsenal Gear smashes into Federal Hall. This all really does seem to suggest that Raiden is impossibly talking to the same woman, and so that would mean that he's in a VR simulation and embracing this illusion.
While I'm on the subject of the game's ending, I think it's also important to bring up the book City of Glass, by Paul Auster, which was at the very least one of the inspirations for this game. Warning, I'm going to be giving huge spoilers for that book here. I guess you could skip the next paragraph if you don't want to know.
So the thing is that City of Glass is a mystery book, but at the end of the book, no mysteries in the book have actually been answered. You're just left there, with nothing. So if you read through it again, trying to see if there were clues, you start to notice how things don't really seem to add up to what is apparently supposed to be going on in the book. How Peter and Virginia Stillman's story seems to have some holes in it, and how they really start looking suspicious. I really think that MGS2 is similar. The game ends with all sorts of mysteries, like Vamp, and we don't have any answers. Who the hell are the Patriots for example? So maybe, like City of Glass, we were supposed to play through the game again, and notice how things aren't adding up, and this would lead us to believe that maybe nothing is actually real in it, maybe it is all just VR.
OK, OK, I said I wouldn't get into my own theories when I started this, that I'd just focus on the translation, so I'll move on.

Really though, this is it. The ending of the game is the same. With my skill at Japanese, I can tell that everyone says pretty much the same stuff. The credits are all in Japanese of course, except for foreign names in English, and it says in Japanese "Solid Snake/Solidus Otsuka Akio" of course since they were played by the same guy, but there's really not much else to say. Still, if anyone has any questions, go ahead and ask. If you want me to check something from somewhere in the game, go ahead and I'll do my best. This is the end of the game, Kojima's final word on Metal Gear, his final message within the series, so it definitely deserves attention, but in all truth, I unfortunately didn't catch any major differences here like I was hoping for. I was really hoping that there would be something the equivalent of Mr. X's voice changing as Olga played recordings as she went along her script, but there's nothing like that here as far as I can tell.
I hope you all enjoyed this, and I plan on going back to those first parts that were lost when the first version of this topic disappeared so that anyone late to this will get the full story.

Just a couple updates on MGS2's ending, examining some lines said.

"Of course, Jack! You have to beLIEve me!"

What JFK-Rose says here in Japanese is "Mochiron, Jakku! Shinjiteyo!"
OK, I have to admit that I'm not sure just how exactly she used "shinjiru", as in, just how she ended the sentence, but let me explain what this means. "Mochiron" pretty much means "certainly", as well as "of course" like it was translated here. "Shinjiru" is to believe, so you can see it's the same meaning. There appears to be no pun or anything like that used, so it seems that the translator thought this up herself, and I quite like it.

"They taught me some good things too."
Mr. Wolfe ranted about how Quinton Flynn screwed this line up, based on how he interpreted the script. When Flynn says it, he emphasizes "good things", but Mr. Wolfe believed that the emphasis should have been on "they" instead.
Again, I didn't totally catch the line in Japanese, but I did listen to Raiden's voice very closely. First I'll again have to explain some of the Japanese language here. When Raiden says this line, it shows Solidus's dead body, and we hear him say "Aitsu wa blah blah", I didn't catch it exactly. What's important here is "aitsu". So as some of you may know from reading Ravi's article on Dr. Clark ( https://web.archive.org/web/201812171337...tion-error ), "kare" is used as a masculine pronoun, like referring to a male, while "kanojo" is used to refer to females. From what I understand, "kare" and "kanojo" are used when talking about someone close by, while there are other pronouns to use if someone is not immediately present (of course, this makes me wonder why they refer to Dr. Clark with "kare" instead of "aitsu". I totally admit that my understanding of all this is not complete), while "aitsu" is used for someone not immediately present, like they're far away. It seems kind of strange since Solidus is within Raiden and Snake's view, unless he's not just referring to Solidus.
I think I mentioned this before, but there isn't really a difference between singular and plural in Japanese, it's more based on context. So while "aitsu" can be used to refer to a certain person, Raiden's use here might be referring more to the Sons of Liberty as a whole. So the translator's use of "they" is most likely correct.
So anyway, when Raiden speaks, I clearly heard an emphasis on "aitsu" rather than anything else afterwards. So yes, the emphasis was supposed to be on "they" in his line. Maybe you can say it's minor, but to someone like Mr. Wolfe and me, this is pretty important, Raiden saying that he even learned good things from his most hated enemy, rather than only from his allies.

There's another part of MGS2 that's always confused me, something that I've wondered whether it was a translation error or not, Liquid's line "Why do you think I chose Ocelot as my host?"

I couldn't get exactly what he was saying listening to it, since he talks so fast, but I managed to do a rough translation of the subtitles, combined with what I could make out of what he said.

"(I) ga Ocelot no (arm) ni (draw to/donate/gather) (come to life/bear/birth/life) shita no wa sore ga (reason) da."

So first of all, I noticed that he makes this as a statement rather than a question, kind of like before with his line about taking Ray back. I'm not sure exactly what he's saying, but it seems to be:

"I was drawn to Ocelot's arm to come to life, that's the reason."

I'm having trouble making out what exactly he's saying here, but it's something like that. So it seems that Liquid really did somehow have something to do with getting attached to Ocelot. I have no idea how an arm could do this. Maybe Liquid's arm was first attached to someone else, and then by controlling this other guy, he was able to arrange to get attached to Ocelot? I still don't understand why Ocelot would keep Liquid's arm after it possessed him in the tanker though. Maybe he thought he could gain some of Liquid's knowledge by keeping it attached?

I replayed the Tanker Chapter yesterday and today just to see what else I could catch, and part of that was listening to all of the Codec calls. As you might remember from the English version of the game, Otacon tries to read out Chinese proverbs like Mei Ling when you save, and totally screws them up. In Japanese, he's still reading Chinese proverbs, but it seems that he's reading it all wrong. I think that he's getting the phonetics of the word, but instead he's getting the wrong meaning, with ridiculous results. It's important to keep in mind that this is a Japanese game, made by Japanese people, so while logically the characters would actually be speaking English to eachother, or in the case of Snake and Olga, Russian, the characters are of course speaking Japanese here, with the dialouge and story written by Japanese people. So while you could say that it's weird for Hal, born and raised in the US, to be phonetically reading the Japanese translations of these proverbs and getting the wrong meaning (kind of weird in a way. Generally, the characters, called "kanji" in Japanese, have the same general meaning as the original Chinese use, though not always, so he should be able to get the basic idea you'd think...), you just have to keep in mind that this is a story written by Japanese people. I guess it's kind of like if you watch a movie that takes place in some country where they don't speak English, but the dialouge is in English because it was made by English speaking people, and they might use English plays on words and such, even though it doesn't really make sense.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get enough of most of them to really understand what they were saying, but it's obvious that Otacon is reading these wrong, and Snake starts catching on with how they make no sense and that Otacon must be misreading them. For example, in one, Otacon seems to think that the proverb is saying something about Japanese birds. Snake argues back, saying it makes no sense for a Chinese proverb to be talking about Japanese birds, but Otacon insists it's correct and gets some bizarre meaning applicable to Snake's mission from it, though I couldn't catch what exactly he said. Maybe about getting items.

If you call Otacon while in the locker, Otacon mentions how he was hiding in a locker when they first met, and then Snake mentions how Otacon wet his pants. In English, I seem to remember it ending with Otacon saying something like "That's a low blow Snake", but in Japanese, after Otacon says pretty much the same thing, Snake starts laughing. I don't remember him laughing in English.

Something else I noticed this time is about Snake's line after he's slammed against the wall when Liquid steals Ray. In Japanese, his voice is raspy, since he just recovered from either being knocked out or at the very least getting dazed enough to be immobile for a while.

Something else this reminds me of is the fact that as it ends, we hear Otacon yell "SNAAAAAAKE!" Just like what happens when Snake dies. Is this actually supposed to suggest that Snake did in fact die, and it was supposed to be a hint that Raiden's part isn't real?

Before that thread was made, Ravi Singh, also from The Snake Soup, wrote an article about how Big Boss was considered "sterile" in the Japanese version of MGS1 instead of how he was "in a coma" in the English version.

It's interesting to know that, even by the time MGS1 came out, localization for video games and anime has always been an issue amongst English-speaking otakus since the Working Design era of the 1990's (though I'd argue that it's a problem with the rest of the world, if S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is anything to go by), and ever since Funimation added a GamerGate joke for the English dub of Prison School, the English localization debate has since become more political.