Question: 10 Years On: What do you think of MGSV?

[Dirty Duck]

"I'm afraid it's been...nine ten years."

Today marks 10 years since Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain released.

A lot of us discussed our thoughts on the game back when it released on the old site but after a decade I thought it might be nice to get a bit retrospective and discuss what we think of the game now that it's older than Portable Ops was when it released.

Have you played MGSV since its release? As time's gone on have you found your opinion of it has grown or diminished? Is it a game you still think about or did you find you moved on from it quickly? How do you think the industry has changed since it's release, for better or worse?

I don't have time to type up my thoughts right this moment but thought I'd get the OP posted to give everyone a chance to mull it over!

[NateDog]

Personally, I haven't gone back to it. I'm in the midst of a very laboured but full replay of the series (except Peace Walker, fuck Peace Walker). Ground Zeroes is my next stop, but I'm honestly not sure I really even want to play TPP again.

There are aspects of it that I have a lot of admiration for or that I like a lot, but there's nothing that I love about it. If I feel in the mood to mess around in a sandbox with lots of weapons and items at my disposal, I'll do it. But I certainly don't hold any significant feelings of nostalgia for it or a longing to play it. I have that for almost every other main title at some point or other (Portable Ops included), but TPP just doesn't have that for me.

[starschwar]

I will always have mixed feelings about it.

I know the "unfinished" debate will rage 'till the end of time. But whether intentional or not, the story's fragmented, disconnected, almost arbitrary progression, especially after Act 1 makes me feel like we got only a fragment of what was intended to be a much larger story.

Visually, the game is still a stunner. The fact that I cannot definitively say Delta looks better ten years later is preposterous - remember, TPP started its life (and indeed released as) a Gen 7 title.

Dislike the various recasts - Sutherland, whoever replaced Piddock as Zero. Ocelot is all wrong, but it's more due to writing than voice acting - he's so amiable most of the time. Dislike how virtually every returning character is out of character - even Skull Face! Ground Zeroes Skullface is one of the most intimidating and intense villains the series has ever known, going into dark territory that went way beyond the limits of good taste. He became such a goofball in nine years, and I have no idea why.

Venom Snake's borderline silent protagonist treatment does not do the story any favors. I think Kojima overcompensated for criticism that his games were too verbose. I feel such an emotional void for most of the cutscenes.

Quiet is such a nothing character. She's just shameless eye candy who they attach pathos to at the eleventh hour (which includes, again, a scene that is entirely possible to miss out on). Toss in some arbitrary 'why don't you just _____' threads to force her into a tragic role - not a fan.

It's BS that a lot of those scenes are not only missable, but cannot be seen on 'normal' replays through the mission menu. And that the game has only one save file makes that even more unacceptable. Sure, I can share the game with another steam account and do fresh replays whenever I want without losing my progress on my 'main' save. But why does it have to be this way?

The gameplay mechanics are the best the series has ever had in terms of stealth, cqc, shooting, movement. But the missions are dull, repetitive, uninspiring. The open world is just empty space, not at all compelling like the structured level designs of previous games. Ground Zeroes is the best overall mission in the experience, and it's sold separately.

Weapon development, base expansion, recruitment - all return from Peace Walker, and it's all too much of a bloated time sink. Farming for soldiers and resources is just not fun.

I dislike the ending, but mostly I'm confused why so much of the fandom took it as 100% literal when the game itself tells you it's open to interpretation from the outset.

That said, to the game's credit, there is an element I came to appreciate much more since release. From Venom being stuck in the hospital bed to the long-term gameplay progression of getting him up to speed (mobility upgrades, etc) - the aspect of recovering lost aspects of one's self, one's life, one's friends - it hits home hard. I've been unwell since 2018, and have not been able to function the same way I used to. Recovery is a long term prospect for me. Lines like 'we'll make them give back our past' - yeah. I get it.


It's a love-hate relationship. There are times that, when playing it, I have a great time. And yet, it's such a hollow pursuit compared to the better games in the series. Even the humble Peace Walker, limited by the technology of the PSP, had a character-driven story that made me feel things when it meant to. Phantom Pain is just something else. A very, very different type of game, one that will always stand apart from its predecessors, and often for the wrong reasons.

[Departed]

MGSV was my favorite game of all time when it came out. So much so that I put over a 1000 hours into it and spent way too many months making a 2 and a half hour review to air out the madness of my thoughts. Ten years on and I've only grown to love it even more, especially in comparison to most games from the industry these days. To me, MGSV is everything I wish gaming today was. It's entirely gameplay focused, open-ended with the best controls of any stealth game or shooter I've ever played, and allowed for some of the most endlessly gratifying gameplay experiences any video game has ever provided. Its missions aren't huge commitments, each open-ended and designed with just the right balance of player freedom and structure to keep them unique, even if there were only a small handful of objective types.

In fact, for as much as I adored Delta, playing it for the first time made me appreciate MGSV's narrative brevity that much more. Apart from the opening, it is not a game that is constantly trying to interrupt you for ten minute intervals to info dump all over you. It also didn't do the thing every AAA game these days does and make you slowly follow an NPC while they talk at you because that's cheaper than just producing a cutscene. Sure, that hilarious Skull Face scene exists, but it's still treated like a cutscene that you can skip.

Obviously, it's got flaws galore. Even in my nearly five year old review of the game, I spent as much time railing on the game as I did praising it. I wish it had more varied boss fights, including a fight against Skull Face himself that played like Cliff's fights in Death Stranding. I wish the open worlds weren't so barren. And while plenty wish the game had mission 51, I wish Eli was never in the game period. I would've rather seen Chico play that role like the original concept art eluded to, since that would've connected way better to GZ and PW instead of just randomly dropping baby Liquid into the mix.

Still, even in spite of its vast array of flaws, none of it changed the fact that I've spent more time playing MGSV than any game I have ever played, purely because I enjoyed its missions that much. I haven't played MGSV since 2022, since a lot of games have come since, and I've been more keen to play new games instead of constantly replaying old ones I love. But I plan on coming back to MGSV and I imagine when I do, I'm still gonna love it as much as I did a decade ago.

Until a game plays as well as MGSV and has missions that are open-ended and not just railroading me to the next overlong cutscene, I don't see any other game topping this one for a good long while.

[Aragorn]

Decent game. Good skeleton and solid gameplay loop, brought down by spotty level design. Open world was a horrible mistake and adds very little value to the experience outside of the initial novelty factor of it being both MGS and open world; and most of your playground ends up being barren lands and basic camps that encourage you to just snipe the bad guys out of existence with ease.

The story telling is a joke; even though I like the core idea of playing with player expectations and turning Big Boss into a villain by fooling both you & Venom Snake - the game didn't really push boundaries in any meaningful ways and it only raises more questions in the continuity than it answers, and how it delivers its story is a shortcut cop out.

It's fun. It's probably the best MGS gameplay wise, but it didn't really meet the expectations it built.

[Wayno]

Gameplay wise it's one of the best games of its generation. But as others have said the open world was a huge mistake. Currently playing Delta and although MGS3 isn't my favourite for level design, it's still immensely better than V. Even though it's set mostly outdoors, it still feels restrictive and at times oppressive which has always felt like a defining aspect of the sneaking experience.

[Aragorn]

Honestly, playing through Delta with quasi MGS V controls - it makes me realize that even MGS V’s supposed strong suit (freedom) has a lot of weak points.

Compare Groznyj Grad to any level in V - there are a lot of different ways to approach the former; and there is an intentionality to the different paths you can take. Sneak through the southeast? Front door? Use the box? It’s open ended but at the same time it feels more satisfying taking an unconventional route because it feels like you found a secret, if that makes sense.

With V - it’s so open ended (and mostly outdoors and barren) that you don’t really get that feeling. The game throws so many resources and weapons at you that it becomes very clear what the optimal play style is (snipe with your lethality slider of choice) and there is rarely any hard tension. Sure, you can self impose certain challenges on yourself - and V is a better sandbox than it’s predecessor, but what makes a strong open ended game isn’t just throwing different options at you; it’s creating enough friction where taking an unconventional path feels rewarded.

V doesn’t really do that. It just lets you do whatever and hopes the novelty of your dog or inter dimensional fulton will carry you through.

[BULUPTAX]

It's definitely my least favourite of the Kojima helmed games, in retrospect.

The mechanics and controls are super nice but the gameplay loop itself gets old pretty quick. I agree with what Aragorn said about how Delta feels like it has more variety despite being way more limited.

The open worlds feel really depressing to roam around in because of how lifeless they feel. It would've been kind of cool if they threw some civilians in the towns to get at least some kind of personality in it's world. Instead of the only inhabitants being soldiers and animals. I get that Kojima wanted to take the series to a new genre, I feel like the very last game in the series was the wrong time to get experimental.

For me the story is the most disappointing thing. The more I replayed it, the more unfinished and sloppy it felt. I also still really dislike Snake's VA change, I think Kiefer Sutherland really phoned it in and Kojima trying to make him the "strong silent" type of protagonist just made it seem like Kaz and Ocelot really ran Diamond Dogs and that Snake was a glorified operative

[starschwar]

 Kaz and Ocelot really ran Diamond Dogs and that Snake was a glorified operative

I think this was deliberate. After rescuing Miller, Snake basically pleads with him to "tell me what to do, like before" - which can be interpreted as foreshadowing for the twist. Sure, Miller always coordinated over the radio. But the implication is that deep down, Venom was still an MSF subordinate, seeking his commander's orders.

Another thing to consider - it is ambiguous when the post-credits conversation is meant to be happening.  I think it occurred at some point very shortly after Miller recovered from his captivity, while Snake was in the field.  It must have happened before Snake's encounter with Quiet - that was the first of many occasions where Miller attempted to countermand "Big Boss's" authority.  I think that Miller figured out who Venom was (or rather, was not) faster than we were led to believe.  Especially if he remembered that the other Diamond Dogs survivor was the one who lost an arm and took shrapnel to the head, not the otherwise intact Big Boss.

Of course, this is all assuming the ending is indeed real, and I will always consider it ambiguous.

[Aragorn]

I am very pro-Sutherland as Snake. I will maintain, that despite Hayter being treated like shit by Kojima - the change itself was good and Hayter as Big Boss was a mistake in the first place. Hayter should have either adopted a different voice for the role if they wanted to keep him (but this is not him, it's on the VA director I suppose) or the switch should have happened with Snake Eater or at *max* by Peace Walker. What little Sutherland has in V, he does very well.

Re: the story - I don't agree that Venom was still a MSF subordinate, I think he was silent simply because Sutherland was expensive, Kojima wanting to cut down on custscenes and dialogue for tapes instead and a more episodic format (immensely stupid decision. I am in favour of interactive story telling, but this was replacing one method of exposition dumping with another - and a less compelling one, at that) and them just kind of running out of time on a lot of things.

It seems Kojima ran into a general wall with V in that he has to sell Big Boss' as a villain but he was incapable of committing to you playing as a force of evil. V is where a lot of story telling sins committed by the prequels came into play; and I believe this is one of them in that Big Boss' arc across 3, Portable Ops, Peace Walker, etc wasn't conductive of such a sharp heel turn.

The solution is theoretically very smart - by treating Venom as a player avatar, by having Big Boss backstab and double cross Venom Snake, robbing him of his identity, and using him as a tool, and by betraying player expectations; you as a player experience what Venom experiences - and you grow to understand Big Boss' hypocrisy and why vision for the world falters. The demon that Venom is trying to excise isn't some abstract concept of sin and wrong doing on the battlefield; it's Big Boss. This lowly mercenary medic becomes a true inheritor of the Boss' will and fights for peace while Big Boss' will, this demon festering inside of him, chases a never ending state of war.

That ending shot is a rejection of Big Boss. I will stand by this and I think it's very evident that this is what Kojima is going for with the mirror and everything that leads up to it - but because the story telling is so fragmented, underdeveloped, and lacking in introspection into V as a character; it's a hard line to connect.

In an ideal world Chapter 3 isn't some Sahelanthropus fight that doesn't matter or Eli spending his entire life hating the wrong guy (which is fucking hilarious, honestly) - it should be Operation N313 from Venom's perspective as he goes rogue against the real Big Boss. A clash of wills and a sunset to a tragic anti hero caught in the cross fire between the inheritors of the Joy's vision for the world.