(22-04-2026, 10:49 AM)ahln1239 Wrote: 1. was it Emma who informed them?? if it was indeed her, then why?

2. also another thing is, everyone understands that the patriots wanted to make raiden another snake (the main thing here is to see how context and events can control a human's behevior and personality) the thing is, why it was a success exactly? the ai told raiden at the end that it was a success before he even fought solidus. so i'm confused two things following what i just said:
a. why it was a success before he even beat solidus?
b. why everyone says he is really another "solid snake" now? how so? i mean in what aspect does he resemble snake now after the s3 plan? emotionally? or something else?

3. why colonel told raiden that snake is the head of the terrorists? of Dead Cell? what contribution does it have? to lie about it to raiden?

thanks a lot.  and have a good day!

Quote:Otacon    : Snake -- There’s something I have to tell you.

Snake      : What?

Otacon    : We didn’t dig up this info -- about the new Metal Gear -- on our own. Not like usual...

Snake      : How did you find out, then?

Otacon    : It was a tip. An anonymous tip.

Snake      : Anonymous? You’ve never trusted those -- why would you start now?

Otacon    : I, ah. I have a younger sister. A stepsister. We have different parents. I only knew her for two years.

Snake      : You’ve never mentioned her before. So...?

Otacon    : The sender of the tip was “E.E.”

Snake      : “E.E.”?

Otacon    : Her name is Emma, but I always called her “E.E.”...

(22-04-2026, 01:44 PM)NateDog Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 10:49 AM)ahln1239 Wrote: 1. was it Emma who informed them?? if it was indeed her, then why?
2. also another thing is, everyone understands that the patriots wanted to make raiden another snake (the main thing here is to see how context and events can control a human's behevior and personality) the thing is, why it was a success exactly? the ai told raiden at the end that it was a success before he even fought solidus. so i'm confused two things following what i just said:
a. why it was a success before he even beat solidus?
b. why everyone says he is really another "solid snake" now? how so? i mean in what aspect does he resemble snake now after the s3 plan? emotionally? or something else?
3. why colonel told raiden that snake is the head of the terrorists? of Dead Cell? what contribution does it have? to lie about it to raiden?
thanks a lot.  and have a good day!

1. Emma leaked information about Metal Gear Ray to Philanthropy but she resented Otacon in many ways, so I'm not sure if she thought she was luring him into a trap or not. But Philanthrophy had been established for a few years before the Tanker incident so I'm sure Snake and Otacon had sources of information (or taking information, in Otacon's case). I'm not sure if it's ever made completely clear where they got the information from about the Big Shell but Emma had a hand in designing that so chances are they may have taken a lead from that.
[Tanker mission]

Quote:Otacon    : Snake -- There’s something I have to tell you.
Snake      : What?
Otacon    : We didn’t dig up this info -- about the new Metal Gear -- on our own. Not like usual...
Snake      : How did you find out, then?
Otacon    : It was a tip. An anonymous tip.
Snake      : Anonymous? You’ve never trusted those -- why would you start now?
Otacon    : I, ah. I have a younger sister. A stepsister. We have different parents. I only knew her for two years.
Snake      : You’ve never mentioned her before. So...?
Otacon    : The sender of the tip was “E.E.”
Snake      : “E.E.”?
Otacon    : Her name is Emma, but I always called her “E.E.”...

2. Other people can definitely explain this better than me, but in effect I'd say the S3 Plan was a success because the intention from The Patriots was to simulate an event and manipulate information around it and people (through the event itself and the information that came out from it). The information they got from the "exercise" allowed them to create the AIs that went on to significantly influence / control public opinion and views.
3. I've always thought the "colonel" said that Snake was the head of the terrorists because 1.) Philanthropy were actually regarded as a terrorist organisation after the Tanker Incident, but more importantly 2.) because, as the "colonel" itself says, "he was never factored into the simulation". He was believed dead by everyone at that stage so it struggled to take that information into account, and one of the things Solidus did was take Solid's name to try to lure the Patriots out.
If anything I've said here is wrong (and I'm sure something is) someone please correct me!

thanks so much! although i do not get the part about why the AIs at the end told raiden "it was a success" before he fought solidus and finished the exercise fully.
and about telling raiden solid snake is the head of the terrorists...why? lol i really am confused. although you answered very well, it's still so confusing in my head haha

thanks a lot friend!

(22-04-2026, 02:51 PM)ahln1239 Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 01:44 PM)NateDog Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 10:49 AM)ahln1239 Wrote: 1. was it Emma who informed them?? if it was indeed her, then why?
2. also another thing is, everyone understands that the patriots wanted to make raiden another snake (the main thing here is to see how context and events can control a human's behevior and personality) the thing is, why it was a success exactly? the ai told raiden at the end that it was a success before he even fought solidus. so i'm confused two things following what i just said:
a. why it was a success before he even beat solidus?
b. why everyone says he is really another "solid snake" now? how so? i mean in what aspect does he resemble snake now after the s3 plan? emotionally? or something else?
3. why colonel told raiden that snake is the head of the terrorists? of Dead Cell? what contribution does it have? to lie about it to raiden?
thanks a lot.  and have a good day!

1. Emma leaked information about Metal Gear Ray to Philanthropy but she resented Otacon in many ways, so I'm not sure if she thought she was luring him into a trap or not. But Philanthrophy had been established for a few years before the Tanker incident so I'm sure Snake and Otacon had sources of information (or taking information, in Otacon's case). I'm not sure if it's ever made completely clear where they got the information from about the Big Shell but Emma had a hand in designing that so chances are they may have taken a lead from that.
[Tanker mission]

Quote:Otacon    : Snake -- There’s something I have to tell you.
Snake      : What?
Otacon    : We didn’t dig up this info -- about the new Metal Gear -- on our own. Not like usual...
Snake      : How did you find out, then?
Otacon    : It was a tip. An anonymous tip.
Snake      : Anonymous? You’ve never trusted those -- why would you start now?
Otacon    : I, ah. I have a younger sister. A stepsister. We have different parents. I only knew her for two years.
Snake      : You’ve never mentioned her before. So...?
Otacon    : The sender of the tip was “E.E.”
Snake      : “E.E.”?
Otacon    : Her name is Emma, but I always called her “E.E.”...

2. Other people can definitely explain this better than me, but in effect I'd say the S3 Plan was a success because the intention from The Patriots was to simulate an event and manipulate information around it and people (through the event itself and the information that came out from it). The information they got from the "exercise" allowed them to create the AIs that went on to significantly influence / control public opinion and views.
3. I've always thought the "colonel" said that Snake was the head of the terrorists because 1.) Philanthropy were actually regarded as a terrorist organisation after the Tanker Incident, but more importantly 2.) because, as the "colonel" itself says, "he was never factored into the simulation". He was believed dead by everyone at that stage so it struggled to take that information into account, and one of the things Solidus did was take Solid's name to try to lure the Patriots out.
If anything I've said here is wrong (and I'm sure something is) someone please correct me!

thanks so much! although i do not get the part about why the AIs at the end told raiden "it was a success" before he fought solidus and finished the exercise fully.
and about telling raiden solid snake is the head of the terrorists...why? lol i really am confused. although you answered very well, it's still so confusing in my head haha

thanks a lot friend!

(22-04-2026, 06:49 PM)BigBrother Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 02:51 PM)ahln1239 Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 01:44 PM)NateDog Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 10:49 AM)ahln1239 Wrote: 1. was it Emma who informed them?? if it was indeed her, then why?
2. also another thing is, everyone understands that the patriots wanted to make raiden another snake (the main thing here is to see how context and events can control a human's behevior and personality) the thing is, why it was a success exactly? the ai told raiden at the end that it was a success before he even fought solidus. so i'm confused two things following what i just said:
a. why it was a success before he even beat solidus?
b. why everyone says he is really another "solid snake" now? how so? i mean in what aspect does he resemble snake now after the s3 plan? emotionally? or something else?
3. why colonel told raiden that snake is the head of the terrorists? of Dead Cell? what contribution does it have? to lie about it to raiden?
thanks a lot.  and have a good day!

1. Emma leaked information about Metal Gear Ray to Philanthropy but she resented Otacon in many ways, so I'm not sure if she thought she was luring him into a trap or not. But Philanthrophy had been established for a few years before the Tanker incident so I'm sure Snake and Otacon had sources of information (or taking information, in Otacon's case). I'm not sure if it's ever made completely clear where they got the information from about the Big Shell but Emma had a hand in designing that so chances are they may have taken a lead from that.
[Tanker mission]

Quote:Otacon    : Snake -- There’s something I have to tell you.
Snake      : What?
Otacon    : We didn’t dig up this info -- about the new Metal Gear -- on our own. Not like usual...
Snake      : How did you find out, then?
Otacon    : It was a tip. An anonymous tip.
Snake      : Anonymous? You’ve never trusted those -- why would you start now?
Otacon    : I, ah. I have a younger sister. A stepsister. We have different parents. I only knew her for two years.
Snake      : You’ve never mentioned her before. So...?
Otacon    : The sender of the tip was “E.E.”
Snake      : “E.E.”?
Otacon    : Her name is Emma, but I always called her “E.E.”...

2. Other people can definitely explain this better than me, but in effect I'd say the S3 Plan was a success because the intention from The Patriots was to simulate an event and manipulate information around it and people (through the event itself and the information that came out from it). The information they got from the "exercise" allowed them to create the AIs that went on to significantly influence / control public opinion and views.
3. I've always thought the "colonel" said that Snake was the head of the terrorists because 1.) Philanthropy were actually regarded as a terrorist organisation after the Tanker Incident, but more importantly 2.) because, as the "colonel" itself says, "he was never factored into the simulation". He was believed dead by everyone at that stage so it struggled to take that information into account, and one of the things Solidus did was take Solid's name to try to lure the Patriots out.
If anything I've said here is wrong (and I'm sure something is) someone please correct me!

thanks so much! although i do not get the part about why the AIs at the end told raiden "it was a success" before he fought solidus and finished the exercise fully.
and about telling raiden solid snake is the head of the terrorists...why? lol i really am confused. although you answered very well, it's still so confusing in my head haha

thanks a lot friend!

Yeah, largely right on point two. The S3 plan was a success because everyone involved was manipulated into doing what The Patriots wanted them to do (Fortune, Dead Cell, Rose, Olga, Solidus). Even knowing the truth about the situation, Raiden and Solidus battled to the death. Raiden because if he died then Rose and Sunny would be murdered - or so he was told - and Solidus didn't choose to team with Raiden & Snake because he was dead set on vengeance, and on extracting data regarding The Patriot's from Raiden's nanomachines.

You can even take it further back in examining how Raiden was groomed to view himself as a veteran; as a would be Snake. The only people who were unaccounted for were Snake and Otacon - hence why they're the main two who moved through the Shell incident of their own accord. I'd offer a potential (minor) correction or alternative on Solidus taking on Solid Snake's identity though: I always assumed it was an attempt to hide his own identity from The Patriots? I think Otacon talks about Soldius keeping a low profile during the Tanker incident, I can't imagine he would want The Patriots to know about his role in proceedings until after he launched the hydrogen bomb to "liberate" Manhattan from The Patriots' rule.

tl;dr: The S3 was all about controlling people, information and circumstances and manipulating them into doing as they were supposed to. And for a bit of editorialising; it's why MGS2 is the true masterpiece of the MGS series. Information being manipulated to control narratives? No relevance in 2026 whatsoever....

(Yesterday, 12:18 PM)ahln1239 Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 06:49 PM)BigBrother Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 02:51 PM)ahln1239 Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 01:44 PM)NateDog Wrote:

(22-04-2026, 10:49 AM)ahln1239 Wrote: 1. was it Emma who informed them?? if it was indeed her, then why?
2. also another thing is, everyone understands that the patriots wanted to make raiden another snake (the main thing here is to see how context and events can control a human's behevior and personality) the thing is, why it was a success exactly? the ai told raiden at the end that it was a success before he even fought solidus. so i'm confused two things following what i just said:
a. why it was a success before he even beat solidus?
b. why everyone says he is really another "solid snake" now? how so? i mean in what aspect does he resemble snake now after the s3 plan? emotionally? or something else?
3. why colonel told raiden that snake is the head of the terrorists? of Dead Cell? what contribution does it have? to lie about it to raiden?
thanks a lot.  and have a good day!

1. Emma leaked information about Metal Gear Ray to Philanthropy but she resented Otacon in many ways, so I'm not sure if she thought she was luring him into a trap or not. But Philanthrophy had been established for a few years before the Tanker incident so I'm sure Snake and Otacon had sources of information (or taking information, in Otacon's case). I'm not sure if it's ever made completely clear where they got the information from about the Big Shell but Emma had a hand in designing that so chances are they may have taken a lead from that.
[Tanker mission]

Quote:Otacon    : Snake -- There’s something I have to tell you.
Snake      : What?
Otacon    : We didn’t dig up this info -- about the new Metal Gear -- on our own. Not like usual...
Snake      : How did you find out, then?
Otacon    : It was a tip. An anonymous tip.
Snake      : Anonymous? You’ve never trusted those -- why would you start now?
Otacon    : I, ah. I have a younger sister. A stepsister. We have different parents. I only knew her for two years.
Snake      : You’ve never mentioned her before. So...?
Otacon    : The sender of the tip was “E.E.”
Snake      : “E.E.”?
Otacon    : Her name is Emma, but I always called her “E.E.”...

2. Other people can definitely explain this better than me, but in effect I'd say the S3 Plan was a success because the intention from The Patriots was to simulate an event and manipulate information around it and people (through the event itself and the information that came out from it). The information they got from the "exercise" allowed them to create the AIs that went on to significantly influence / control public opinion and views.
3. I've always thought the "colonel" said that Snake was the head of the terrorists because 1.) Philanthropy were actually regarded as a terrorist organisation after the Tanker Incident, but more importantly 2.) because, as the "colonel" itself says, "he was never factored into the simulation". He was believed dead by everyone at that stage so it struggled to take that information into account, and one of the things Solidus did was take Solid's name to try to lure the Patriots out.
If anything I've said here is wrong (and I'm sure something is) someone please correct me!

thanks so much! although i do not get the part about why the AIs at the end told raiden "it was a success" before he fought solidus and finished the exercise fully.
and about telling raiden solid snake is the head of the terrorists...why? lol i really am confused. although you answered very well, it's still so confusing in my head haha

thanks a lot friend!

Yeah, largely right on point two. The S3 plan was a success because everyone involved was manipulated into doing what The Patriots wanted them to do (Fortune, Dead Cell, Rose, Olga, Solidus). Even knowing the truth about the situation, Raiden and Solidus battled to the death. Raiden because if he died then Rose and Sunny would be murdered - or so he was told - and Solidus didn't choose to team with Raiden & Snake because he was dead set on vengeance, and on extracting data regarding The Patriot's from Raiden's nanomachines.

You can even take it further back in examining how Raiden was groomed to view himself as a veteran; as a would be Snake. The only people who were unaccounted for were Snake and Otacon - hence why they're the main two who moved through the Shell incident of their own accord. I'd offer a potential (minor) correction or alternative on Solidus taking on Solid Snake's identity though: I always assumed it was an attempt to hide his own identity from The Patriots? I think Otacon talks about Soldius keeping a low profile during the Tanker incident, I can't imagine he would want The Patriots to know about his role in proceedings until after he launched the hydrogen bomb to "liberate" Manhattan from The Patriots' rule.

tl;dr: The S3 was all about controlling people, information and circumstances and manipulating them into doing as they were supposed to. And for a bit of editorialising; it's why MGS2 is the true masterpiece of the MGS series. Information being manipulated to control narratives? No relevance in 2026 whatsoever....

thanks! ok do you know another thing to explain to me? why emma was letting snake and otacon know about metal gear ray?